To think when the state pension is removed, the social contract is broken?

[JulyJulyNovember]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8e2yp1gg37o

It seems likely that in due course, the universal state pension will be withdrawn. At this point, I don’t see how there will be any incentive for young people to build wealth here.

I don’t think poor pensioners should be homeless, but I don’t think they should be provided for in large, unsuitable council houses or in nursing homes where places cost thousands a week. We are moving to a more individualistic world.

Well we’ve each paid higher and additional rate tax for the last 2 decades, plus plenty of CT and a bit of CGT so, erm, fuck yes!

Herein lies the problem.

Yes, it’s a shocker isn’t it? People paying 6 figures in tax every single year would like to have the same nice things as others when they retire. <wrings hands>

It's greed imo. I have some GP friends who won't apply for it.

Oh, my sides. Those would be the same self-employed GP’s that refused to actually fulfil their NHS contract unless they got their grubby little hands on the NHS pension? The one that “isn’t actually that generous” - stop it! 😂

I am claiming every penny and blowing it on whatever I like - champagne and spa treatments, probably. My individual income tax contribution for the last 5 years was just shy of £600k btw. I’ve worked from the age of 15 in some capacity. I am definitely not the problem here - quite the contrary.

We all see it differently.

Well, good luck running state services without HR taxpayers - who already pay the vast majority of IT btw. The main difference between UK and continental tax rates is that rates on low and middle earners are greater in Europe. Generally voters don’t like them apples either.

As I said. We all see it differently.

The social contract has already been broken by allowing benefits to balloon the way they have.

That sounds exactly the same as it was in the 1970s.

Forestgreenblue
R4 More or Less checked claims by ex Chancellor Hunt regarding these claims. R4 investigation revealed an adult can only claim £15k pa UB capped by Osborne in 2006 and if instead working FT on minimum wage would earn £22k so financially better off in work.

Hunts claims of £37k were for a severely disabled adult with almost no ability to work claiming all available benefits.

His Office apologised for making false statements. Dont believe everything you hear on GB news

This entire thread strikes me as a bit mad.

For one thing the article that the OP mentions is about people's opinions, not actual facts. Nobody has ever suggested that the state pension will actually be scrapped, and clearly anyone who did say such a thing would never win an election. Yes people are talking about the sustainability of the triple lock but it's not the thin end of a wedge which sees the whole thing disappear.

The whole point of gradually raising the state pension age to 68 over decades is to keep the system sustainable. And to be honest it's a fair and sensible solution since life expectancy is rising.

Obviously there are anomalies. It's more difficult for some people to work in their jobs at 68 than others, and for a cohort of women who expected to retire at 60 there is now a lot more work to be done until they get their pension. But overall, a rise from 65 to 68 for men over 30 years seems reasonable when life expectancy is so much higher now. And equality for women is fair too.

It's easy to find fault in a system but what would be a better one? And I say this as someone not due to get a pension til 68.

The problem isn't with pensions IMO, it's with other things that make private saving difficult. Housing costs, principally. And a system which allows some people to receive enormous, life changing gifts tax free when their parents die whilst others less lucky receive nothing.

She gets state pension and she only worked in paid employment for one year in her whole life? Can’t be right unless some kind soul paid 40 years of National Insurance for her?

I said pension credit not state pension. Anyone who doesn’t qualify for state pension gets pension credit instead. Which is pretty much the same amount as state pension. But if you get pension credit you also get council tax free and other benefits that people on state pension do not get.
So you can pay zero NI and get pension credit. Not state pension. Someone could move here from abroad at 60 and never work and get pension credit and all the benefits it comes with.

She probably gets widow's pension and she would have accumulated NI credits as she raised four sons and would have got NI credits through her family allowance. Plus she will get pension credit. Not my business though. My FIL also ran his own business until he became to ill to do so.

Paid employment is one way of paying in. As is raising four sons without claiming free child care.

Why can’t all benefits including state pension be means tested? It’s something I’ve never really understood.

Then people would be even more outraged. What's the point of paying in, if you get zero back.

Because you'll end up spending £1 to means test £0.01

True

Don't need to. It's automatic.

No it isn't. You have to apply. You get notice when it's time to.

@Vinvertebratei know that you know that not all NHS workers are on huge work pensions? You also know that the vast majority of NHS workers are not highly paid consultants or hospital chiefs? Right ? The massive majority are in much lower pay bands. So the idea in the public domain that NHS workers all get this huge pension really is a myth, sadly. The thought that while you are as happy as Larry to get all this dosh when you retire (yes I know you contributed, or DH did/does) but you can’t possibly have all the “nice things “ that all these other people have unless you claim your state pension is slightly revolting. I hope your DH has a different attitude towards the masses who are keeping him in a job and I really hope that you don’t work in the NHS.

https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/how-to-claim

Because we need to scrap NIC and raise income tax, to stop this nonsense of people thinking they're "paying in". NIC is just another tax!

One problem with means testing the pension is if you’re in a low paid job and even after 40-50 years will only ever save a pot worth the same or only marginally higher than the state pension why would you bother? You may as well spend that money while you’re young and then claim the state pension. What would be the incentive to save it yourself if you can get the same amount for free without bothering?