AIBU to feel like my ILs use my DHs niece to pressure me?

[IsolatedLemonTree]

This is about my ILs. Don't know AIBU is the right place to post this question - if it is wrong please let me know... maybe it can be moved? From what I have read AIBU gets a lot of traffic and many different topics are allowed?

Summary: I feel like my ILs use my DH's niece as a way to manipulate me into doing things they want and I want to know if you think this is normal/I'm being unreasonable to resist.

Long version:
There is a lot of friction between me and my in-laws. In particular my SIL and with MIL. I will try to give you as much information as I can in this OP so I'm sorry for the length of this post!

Me and my DH got married in April this year and have been together for 17 years. We met during freshers in our first year of uni. At the time, and probably right up until the wedding, my MIL was convinced our relationship wouldn't last. She didn't say this outright but there were many tells - I haven't included them in this post because it's a bit besides the point.

In our first year of uni when we started dating my SIL was going through a nasty breakup with her fiancee and maybe that influenced MILs attitude to me (this is what DH thinks) I don't know what to make of that personally... What I do know is that since day 1 MIL has treated me in basically a belittling way. Pity almost. But this is through a mask of friendliness... if friendliness had thorns... anyway, I should mention that I am not from the UK and that is visible from the outside, if I put it that way. In the 80s MIL might have described me as "exotic". Sometimes MIL makes up facts about my background when she talks about me to her friends. Again, I don't know if this influences it at all. I would never describe MIL as racist but I think her world view has a bit of "colonial superiority/pride" to it, if that makes sense. She often comments on people's ethnic background and will interrogate waiters and shopkeepers about where they are from and then tell them about when she visited their country or if she hasn't she will tell them she has visited a country nearby, that sort of thing. It's often visible that it makes them uncomfortable...

Although SIL had a lot of problems growing up she comes across as the favourite child. I don't know if thats linked or a common thing. Some of the issues in her life continued and in the end she conceived through sperm donation since she was running out of time/options. Since there is no dad, their family often need to coordinate supportive childcare, and sometimes ask us for help. When DH and I sold our last house, MIL tried to convince us to buy a house near SIL so that I could provide childcare for her daughter. I had been let go from my job due to restructuring (and was quite depressed) and MIL thought it meant I had a lot of free time on my hands. MIL never really asked me if this is something I wanted to do, instead she took for granted that I was a resource she/they could use. In the end this didn't happen but I'm adding this for context.

At the wedding SIL was very cold to me and I can't actually remember her speaking to me except twice. Once to ask repeatedly about dinner and dinner times because "she was hungry" (even though I had provided them with this information beforehand) and another time to say something which was upsetting (would rather not go into it). She was told off by someone overhearing.

During the dinner she didn't come up to us to congratulate us, even though many other people did. I'm glad she didn't because I didn't want to chat to her either, but it's worth mentioning that she didn't make the effort. At the same time, I don't know whether it is common to do that in the UK (it is not where I am from) so I don't want to be unfair to her about this. MIL did come up to us during the meal and so did some of our friends, so I was getting mixed signals in terms of what was to be expected from guests/family during the meal.

SIL seemed quite grumpy throughout. I started getting a sense that she was sending over her daughter to ask questions about the food in a very impatient way and very loudly, constantly, and mid-meal. Questions like: When is the food coming? What food will I get next? What is the dessert? When will I get the dessert? Why isn't the dessert here? Her daughter would run between our table and theirs, back and forth, with SIL watching, so it is hard to imagine any other scenario than that the poor girl was being told "go ask them when the dessert will be here" "ask them if it is ice cream" instead of being told to for example be patient or for the adults to explain to the girl what food was coming up next. The girl also came up holding part of her food in her hand and gave it to us. Lots of saliva on it. SIL was watching this unfold. I'm guessing this was the food she didn't like and didn't want to eat. So instead of SIL eating or disposing of it, she told her go give it to us (me and DH).

This meant that I was faced with a choice of either eating her food or be rude by not accepting this "gift" from a child.

Later when all the dancing was happening, I was chatting to friends outside the dance floor. Their family were dancing inside and it felt like they were sending her over to us to scream at me, loudly: "COME DANCE WITH THE FAMILY!!!". This happened about 4 times in a row, each time the same sentence. Again, this felt like one or more adults using a child to deliver a message and I felt very uncomfortable with it. I had to say no to her each time because the whole thing seemed engineered by an adult and honestly I was having a nice conversation and wanted to continue having it.

I also thought it was a very strange thing for a 3-4 year old to say. Not the dancing part but the "with the family" part. In my experience, children of that age are more interested in "come dance with ME" or "come play with ME" but I'm not an expert... we've got a dog and ages in dog years and doesn't speak English, so what do I know?!

I thought MUMSnet would be able to help me work out whether this is expected behaviour from a child this age or if I am right to suspect they used the child to send messages. I obviously feel quite bad because the outcome has been that this poor girl has been told no over and over again and I don't want to upset her. But I also don't want to be manipulated by the grown ups.

Am I being too harsh/unreasonable?

No, you're misunderstanding me -- I thought the photo book was hilarious! DH and I got the giggles as we flipped through the album after it had been ceremonially presented, to the point where we were slightly disappointed to come across my tiny blurry face in a class photo near the end. DH said it was like those photos of Stalin that had Trotsky removed after the purges.

I'm only giving it as an example of not being bothered about not being liked by an IL. I can see exactly why her (awful) early life made her the tactless, bossy, unimaginative woman she became, and why she finds me, who am so different to her, so puzzling and unattractive. I represent a road that not only wasn't taken, but a road she never knew existed. It's easier for her to think of her own life as not having involved choices.

It's not something I give a great deal of thought to. (And it's not a thread, just a comment on someone else's years ago!) Other people's opinions of me are their problem, not mine. You're not family for her, and that's fine.

In your shoes, I wouldn't pull out of the holiday if you've booked. Cornwall is so lovely. But I would approach it purely in terms of what would suit you. If you want to do something, do it. If you're OK with looking after your niece for a few hours as a once-off at a time that suits you, do it. If you want to read on the beach or walk a bit of the SWCP while the rest are doing something you're not interested in, do that. If you need alone time, take it. If you want to go to Tate St Ives with your DH, do that. Say 'No, I can't look after little X now, I'm doing something. But DH and I are OK with watching her tomorrow evening if you want to go out for dinner.' If you are, obviously. I mean, you're on holiday. You're not there as a human service animal to help your DH relate to his family, or to do childcare. You're not being held at gunpoint.

And let's face it, what you're currently doing isn't working. Your MIL doesn't much like you, Your SIL doesn't much like you. At least if you suit yourself, you're having a good time.

@CoffreFort
"DH said it was like those photos of Stalin that had Trotsky removed after the purges."

LOL 😂😂😂😂😂Yes okay makes sense why I couldn't find a thread then haha. Thanks for adding those hilarious details!

"I can see exactly why her (awful) early life made her the tactless, bossy, unimaginative woman she became, and why she finds me, who am so different to her, so puzzling and unattractive. I represent a road that not only wasn't taken, but a road she never knew existed. It's easier for her to think of her own life as not having involved choices."

This hits hard. I think my MIL is a rather lost woman that has to manufacture purpose to be content because she doesn't actually have anything she genuinely loves or enjoys about life (not even herself, I'd imgaine).

I've never met anyone that wants to tell people so much about their life without there being anything of true value in what they are saying. It's all about how it looks to other people and much of it is completely vapid. She seems to take pleasure in people's misfortune because she can "offer to help" and get recognition from that, if she knows them, as long as it's on her terms. If she doesn't know them but they're on her metaphorical doorstep (homeless people) then she speaks of them with disgust and a complete lack of empathy. If it's starving children in Africa, then she's Bob Geldof.

Anyway, your description of Cornwall is tempting me! And those are good suggestions about how to deal with various requests and situations.

Do you think it's fair to ask to bring our dog (beagle)? He's really well behaved, but MIL hates dogs and she was really cruel to our old dog, so I'm in two minds about it but it would be easier to just bring him along than book him into a doggy hotel (and cheaper) and obviously much kinder to him!

She seems to take pleasure in people's misfortune because she can "offer to help" and get recognition from that, if she knows them

You're describing my own mother here! In her case it's crushingly low self-esteem and an (entirely unconscious) choice of unlucky, ill, unfortunate, lonely or poor people as 'friends' so that she can feel needed and powerful because they need her. She trades services for relationships over and over, and is actively turned off by people who are happy, confident and successful. She much prefers when even her own adult children are in trouble because then, in her perception, they need her. If you phone her with good news, you can actually hear hear tuning out and getting bitter because she experiences it as a rejection. To her 'I'm so happy this great thing happened!' says 'I don't need you, go away'.

Re dog -- isn't it going to depend on your accommodation? I wouldn't take a dog on holiday with someone who is frightened of them, if that's the reason behind her hatred, or someone who is likely to mistreat a dog, if left unsupervised with one.

@CoffreFort

Jesus christ. Is it the same person?! that's a joke - just in case it's as bad as my last comedy attempt in this thread lol.

Why are some people/mothers like this? There must be books on it.

You're right about the dog, we've got a camper van with a bed etc so I thought worst case he can sleep in there.

Btw they're not frightened of him, the kids love him, but MIL just hates dogs.

Maybe it's because dogs make people happy but ask for nothing in return!? 🤔

What did your DH do when his niece kept coming over?

If you mean at the dinner, then he did what I was doing, which is we both tried to answer her questions, while also trying to eat our own food.

Wasn't much we could do to be honest.

Reason I thought the whole thing was weird is I would never have dreamed to do this when I was that age, or any other age, because my parents would have grabbed me and sat me down and said be polite/respectful or you can speak to them later/stop screaming in the dining hall. In fact my parents would never have needed to say anything they would have just looked at me and I would have known I was overstepping. But people are different and to my ILs/SIL this behaviour was okay I guess and not something that needed to be managed? Idk! To each their own!

DH wasn't there for the bit with the dancing and afaik there were never any requests from his family for him to dance with them.

Sorry I missed this comment (locked out of email/OP acc) - no snacks were brought for the child. Actually let me be more careful about this so I'm not making things up: if she brought food for her daughter, she didn't provide it.

Both mother and grandmother, as well as the child, went on and on about how they were hungry and when would there be food. It's the only thing (bar the hurtful thing) that SIL spoke to me about at the wedding.

When the time came for food, the barely ate anything.

All other guests who mentioned anything about food said that there was so much of it and how much they loved attending weddings with plenty of food where you never have to worry about being hungry. Hilarious contrast with MIL/SIL behaviour.

I think MIL/SIL simply do not know how to feed themselves/others and were grasping at straws for something to complain about.

Why didn’t your DH speak to his sister about his niece?

What could he have said? It was happening right in front of the mum and grandmother, so very odd. Like I said - I was not raised that way so can't really get my head around parents being fine seeing that unfold in front of them. When the parent sees it happening and doesn't do anything about it you can't really say anything without it sounding like you're criticising the way they're bringing up their child.

You sound quite,quite insufferable.

You put the onus on the mother and grandmother rather than him. Did he not grow up with his sister? Is he not capable of having an adult conversation to say it’s my wedding day, I love my niece but can you keep a closer eye on her etc.

Maybe it didn’t spoil his day if he couldn’t be bothered to speak up.

Kindly, it does sound to me that you over analyse and over think certain situations. There will be another side of the story. I would learn to let some of the little things go. I would perhaps keep at in laws at arms length, your husband's family doesn't have to be yours. I learned that it's a myth that in laws are family, they rarely ever are deep down.

To a 3-4 year old girl, a bride is like a Disney princess. Of course they want to dance with you and talk to you! Her behaviour sounds completely normal.

I think you sound like you have a massive chip on your shoulder and are looking for things to complain about.

I don’t think it is normal for a 3 year old to give bringing food she doesn’t want to eat to the bride and groom and giving to it to them. I have never seen this at a wedding and my DC certainly would not have been allowed to bother the bride and groom in this way.

I was at a wedding last weekend and young children were wandering around but the parents stayed close and brought them back if they were running upto the couple.

The exact same action maybe not but very normal for a 3 year old to be enthralled by a bride - especially if its her auntie - and to want to be close to them, talk to them, have a bit of attention from them! if my niece had come to ask about desserts I have talked to her about what a delvious ice cream we were expecting or chocolate cake or whatever and been excited with her about it and what we had to look forwards to. If I was talking to friends and she asked me to dance, id say I couldn't right now but id be there in 10 mins, half an hour whatever and wed have a little boogie together. All the OP has done is list a load of actions that apparently annoyed her. She's not said she spent any nice time with her niece or shed already had a dance or anything like that. Just criticised the Childs mum and grandma.

Honestly, your DH is obviously scared of his mum and he will so anything to please her, at your expense. He will allow her to treat you in this condescending fashion, as she obviously views you as her inferior, whether this is because of racism or just her general superiority, this is not acceptable. You are the sacrificial lamb to appease his mother.

Your presence is required so that his family, especially his mum, can look down on you and treat you like some sort of nanny or servant. It sounds very colonial and deeply unpleasant. His mother is awful but your husband is a disloyal coward.

This doesn’t sound like a case of a young child being enthralled by the bride. She kept talking about being hungry to the couple and giving the bride and groom food which she did not want to eat. It is rude for the parents of a child not to reign their child in from bothering the bride and groom on their wedding day.

The drip of a DH didn’t do anything or talk to his sister about his niece which is strange. Maybe it didn’t bother him to deal with food the child did not want to eat and constant complaints of hunger.

Agree with this - you should be more angry with your ‘D’H.