AIBU to think most people don’t realise reducing meat will not save the planet and may in fact cause more climate issues.

[TreeLoverr]

I’m a farmer, but before you dismiss this as bias, I don’t have any livestock so do not sell meat.

We own a purely arable based farm and pretty much exclusively grow grain and cereals.

My family had beef cattle on the farm , but they’re sold the heard years before I was born due to lack of profits.

The reason why I say this is due to a few reasons. The soils on our farm are suffering. Especially due to lack of organic content. The soil must be replaced with actual organic matter (like in a garden, it erodes over time and you have to put compost on)

When most farms operated by rotating grazing animals this happens naturally. The grass putting roots down also stops soil erosion, and the dung from the animals too. There are other things that we are just beginning to understand like the important impact of hooves trampling and the delicate micro biome that the cows eating and pooping replenishes.

Just putting dung onto the fields is not enough. Firstly the nutritional balance gets off kilter very quickly (in a way that doesn’t really happen with livestock rotation) and secondly it is difficult to get hold of when you don’t have your own animals.

The alternative to this is fertiliser. Fertilisers are made using fossil fuels. This is far worse for the environment than animals on grassland.

Many farmland is not suitable for cropping. Too hilly/steep, rocky etc. but it is suitable for raising animals, turning otherwise wasted land into human food.

When we have a bad harvest, it often means the crops are not suitable for human consumption. This is then sold for animal feed, turning this into food further down the line as we can then eat the animals. This crop would otherwise have to be destroyed or just left in the field.

But what about greenhouse gases you might be wondering? Animals are PART of the natural cycle. They are not the same as greenhouse gasses released during fossil fuels being burned. Greenhouse gasses are trapped in the soil and plants that they eat, they release and the plants absorb again. plants literally live off carbon dioxide and methane.

How we farm can absolutely negatively affect climate change, but grass fed British beef and lamb is actually important to our ecology and an important food source in order to maximise our environment without destroying it.

Vast vast majority of cattle is grass fed in the uk. It absolutely can be done at population level. Organic is not likely possible at population level, but it does great work in discovering new technologies and methods.

Ooh intersting could you link to tbe study ?

https://www.medsci.ox.ac.uk/news/vegan-diet-has-just-30-of-the-environmental-impact-of-a-high-meat-diet-major-study-finds

Children are told in school meat is bad for the environment. Most people are smart enough to see that it’s nonsense.

No I didn't. I just don't believe anything you are saying because it's all a load of crap. Recycled nonsense that the meat and dairy industry like to churn out and try and scare the little people into slurping up their cow juice.

Nice try but I've seen this almost exact post on other sites this week.

So do you admit to being the same person/team behind the 4 or 5 posts on here in recent days? And the almost identical ones on another site? Because you don’t seem surprised and haven’t reacted to that. 🤔

I haven’t seen those? I’ve been thinking about writing this for ages as so many people do not understand the full picture. Why would they, most people are not farmers. And it’s not like I’m the only person who knows this. Regenerative farming is growing

There’s too many humans, imagine if the whole world population lived a first world life. The planet will survive, humans not so much.

wh are your arguments to my points?

if everyone is vegan then all farmland will be mono crops. We will be working against nature, taking and not working with the cycle of life.

the meat and dairy industry are on their knees, they have no clout and no money for campaigns. Any money in farming is not in livestock, hence us not having any.

That’s interesting, I’ve never heard this before. Can you share a link on the research?

Are you in favour of mass suicide? Populations everywhere are declining, I don’t know why people keep up this overpopulation narrative still.

Nah, I don’t believe you. It’s almost identical. And too much of a coincident for there to have been so many across sites too.

If the meat industry is behind these posts, which is likely, I feel reassured that they are worried.

Meat is bad for the environment and health. We should be eating less. The current focus is on “rewilding”which relies on year-round, low-density grazing. This avoids soil compaction (poaching) and prevents overgrazing. Intensive livestock farming which I suspect you’re trying to push harms the environment through massive greenhouse gas emissions, severe water and air pollution from untreated waste, mass deforestation for animal feed, and catastrophic biodiversity loss.

What is “the red meat industry”? You are so incorrect it’s laughable. Continue in your bubble, thats fine.

I assume that's why you're posting this nonsense on Mumsnet - run out of budget for marketing eh?

No, the industry is not on its knees, it's heavily propped up by the government and is absolutely disgustingly thriving. I wish it wasn't. But I hope this post does show some nervousness which is a good sign for the world.

I'm not going point to point with you because you are disingenuous and have set this whole post up on a lie.

It is actually the ability to follow a vegetarian diet.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/10/05/1203601131/vegetarianism-vegetarian-genes-diet-meat-genetics

And did you read my post? It talks about the points you mentioned.

rewilding is good I agree, but most of the uk was not actually forest land, it was vast grassland grazed by massive ruminants.

to truly rewild, you actually must have a lot of grazing animals to maintain grasslands.

however, you have to balance food production in, so livestock on beautifully diverse meadows is a great compromise. Rotating in crops is great too as grain is a very effective way of feeding large populations.

All that study shows is that some people genetically find it harder to give up meat than others and will have strong cravings for it for longer. It doesn't show that their bodies need meat or can't survive as a vegetarian. It completely ignored cultures where vegetarianism is the norm because it recognised that culture out weighs this genetic desire to eat meat.

There are other ways to replenish what is taken from the soil. Plant matter including green manure for example. Is this not an option?

what amazing subsidies are there?

if thriving is barely making minimum wage, then sure.

you are so convinced I’m a big bad wolf, you rely on the evil farmers every single day.

this post is not a lie, you just don’t want to hear it.

Also OP, you mention mono cropping. Why not rotation of crops?

Populations in some parts of the world are declining (or falling to a normal level) because women now have the choice to be child free if they so choose. But as I said imagine if the whole world lived like the western world. Central heating and air conditioning constantly running, several cars per family, foreign travel, meat at every meal.

As in cover crops or bio waste?

we utilise both already and it’s not enough

surely the best way is the natural way?

All farmers rotate crops yearly, but in one field there will only be one crop for acres and acres. In contrast with a grazing meadow where there is a larger variety and this is why wildlife often thrives on this environment.

That was the first I found, there are others. I was interested when the PP mentioned it, so I looked. I hadn't heard of this before.

I am also aware of a lot of studies about plant based diets. I don't subscribe to one view or another.