AIBU to think most people don’t realise reducing meat will not save the planet and may in fact cause more climate issues.

[TreeLoverr]

I’m a farmer, but before you dismiss this as bias, I don’t have any livestock so do not sell meat.

We own a purely arable based farm and pretty much exclusively grow grain and cereals.

My family had beef cattle on the farm , but they’re sold the heard years before I was born due to lack of profits.

The reason why I say this is due to a few reasons. The soils on our farm are suffering. Especially due to lack of organic content. The soil must be replaced with actual organic matter (like in a garden, it erodes over time and you have to put compost on)

When most farms operated by rotating grazing animals this happens naturally. The grass putting roots down also stops soil erosion, and the dung from the animals too. There are other things that we are just beginning to understand like the important impact of hooves trampling and the delicate micro biome that the cows eating and pooping replenishes.

Just putting dung onto the fields is not enough. Firstly the nutritional balance gets off kilter very quickly (in a way that doesn’t really happen with livestock rotation) and secondly it is difficult to get hold of when you don’t have your own animals.

The alternative to this is fertiliser. Fertilisers are made using fossil fuels. This is far worse for the environment than animals on grassland.

Many farmland is not suitable for cropping. Too hilly/steep, rocky etc. but it is suitable for raising animals, turning otherwise wasted land into human food.

When we have a bad harvest, it often means the crops are not suitable for human consumption. This is then sold for animal feed, turning this into food further down the line as we can then eat the animals. This crop would otherwise have to be destroyed or just left in the field.

But what about greenhouse gases you might be wondering? Animals are PART of the natural cycle. They are not the same as greenhouse gasses released during fossil fuels being burned. Greenhouse gasses are trapped in the soil and plants that they eat, they release and the plants absorb again. plants literally live off carbon dioxide and methane.

How we farm can absolutely negatively affect climate change, but grass fed British beef and lamb is actually important to our ecology and an important food source in order to maximise our environment without destroying it.

Soil health is not the same as the climate
climate concerns come mainly from methane emissions, and from inputs into feed.
not all cattle are grass fed
theres not enough land for every cow to be grass fed

what about the climate science is wrong?

Absolutely agree. We evolved as part of a complex ecosystem. Artificially eliminating whole food groups that our bodies developed to consume is thoroughly unnatural, and damaging not only to our own health but to the delicate balance of our planet.

If more people realised that the “vegan” label often means “heavily processed” “completely unnatural” or even “petroleum based” they might be less likely to assume it is healthier and better for the environment. Whereas in fact the organic, locally produced lamb chop is way more nutritious and eco-friendly.

Genuine question, if you know the answer. How much crop is grown to feed livestock?

They are all connected and I mentioned about methane in my post.

almost all cattle are grass fed in the uk. Also even cows in barns are mostly fed hay.

Eating less meat is probrably good for health and the planet. A whole food diet is best in the words of Micheal Pollan " eat food mostly plants, not too much".

Tangentially related but a lot of vegan convenience foods are highly highly processed and use unsustainable crops that basically promote monocultures.

It's a lot more complex than less meat is good IMO, it's about eating a variety of whole foods that are as locally sourced as possible.

Sadly, this is expensive, cash-wise and time-wise!

That’s not what the question is tho is it? OP said impacts on the climate not impacts on health (note though all the findings about red meat and health impacts).

nutrition and eco friendly are also not the same. What may work at the small scale (organic grass fed beef great), cannot be replicated sustainably at population scales for the demand that exists (because of high land inputs needed).

im not a preaching vegan. i had wild caught venison for dinner, before anyone calls me a guardianista and a beef burger (grass fed!) on Friday.

Yes but the issue with global climate change is that it’s global. And not all the beef eaten in the world, or in the UK, is sourced from the UK. Most global beef sources are highly unsustainable.

But sorry, what about the climate science is wrong?

I don’t know the full details, cattle in the uks diet is 90-70% grass. Best practices for the environment would be focusing on grass fed livestock and if possible human waste for other animals like pigs (eg veg and grain unsuitable for human consumption)

Each country should adapt to its own climate and ecology. You can only change where you are. We are in the uk and eating meat is not detrimental to the environment, and likewise for other countries with similar conditions.

you cannot apply a blanket approach to climate change.

However eating animals particularly red meat is bad for your health - cholesterol heart issues and cancers etc - I have been veggie for 40 years and feel meat eaters should reduce their consumption anyway for health reasons

We don’t need the carbon intensive meat production which is what most people are eating

we don’t need the methane from animals especially cows.

there is some land that is best farmed with animals or mixed farming and some farming techniques are beneficial

we would be better in many cases having crops not meat - we could get more calories per acre in many cases that way - and calories per acre will become critical in response to climate change

How is better for the planet? Did you read my post. Let’s keep the health argument separate for now.

How many calories per achre will we get with depleted soils?

most people do not see the value in eating British meat as they are told it’s bad for the environment.

I explained about methane in my post.

The planet doesnt need saving, the planet will exist for billions and billions of years just like it already has

When people talk of saving the planet, they mean saving their current lifestyle

But climate has not always been able to sustain human life/life. Thats what will happen again.

This is the 4th, possibly 5th pro meat/anti vegan thread in the last few days on here and I have seen almost identical threads to 3 of them on another forum. 🤔

Ahahaha the meat industry is getting scared after the recent heatwave is waking people up to the climate crisis!

I enjoy posting this in all these threads: the ability to follow a vegan diet is determined by 34 genes which influence the ability to synthesize certain lipids. A very sizeable chunk.of the population, suggests current research, can ONLY do this by consuming animal protein. cue preachy vegans having to slowly retreat from their soapboxes as this becomes more widely known (I'm not smug at all)

OP you are completely right, but people don't like nuance.

That’s a different argument and many scientists disagree.

Did you miss the part where I said we have no livestock 😅

And some people lie because they have agendas!

I think there is a lot of truth in this 👆

The inconvenient truth is that we are parasites on this planet and there are too many of us.

We (as a planet) could stop producing green house gases tomorrow if we chose to, but society wouldn't accept it. We could stop planes, cars etc but the economies would crumble.

I am glad I am at this end of my life and not the other. All I had to worry about when I was young was whether I looked old enough to buy alcohol in a pub. The youth of today have to keep up with the best life someone is presenting on social media and whether the planet will burn. And they don't even have Top of the Pops anymore.

Is it?

I saw nothing but massive BBQs during the heatwave, most people Ive spoken to were absolutely loving it and didnt think it was that hot!!

Or you could believe the people trying to blow the whistle before it’s too late. People who have real experience and are seeing it first hand

"most people do not see the value in eating British meat as they are told it’s bad for the environment."

Is this really the case? Most people I know do eat meat. And those who think about the environment would prefer to eat British meat as it's locally produced.

I don't eat meat because I don't enjoy it. But if I did, I'd choose British meat if possible.