Page 3 | White working class children

NotAnotherScarf · 2026-06-29T07:27:24+00:00

The bbc has a report about a review of the academic system failing white working class children. The bulk of the population. It's brilliant that this has been looked at but the recommendations are appalling. Basically its saying that wcc's are only fit for manual jobs. That schools should push towards offering for vocational courses. That's where my education went 40 years ago. One child from my year group of 242 went to university at 18. We had at most 6 kids from non white backgrounds. Many went subsequently. I have always maintained the school saw us as shop assistants, factory hands and dockers. The other recommendations will help children of all races...free travel under 22. Promoting reading etc. One of the reasons why kids from other backgrounds are doing better has been the push to get them into university...ie black boys being actively recruited and bursarys being given solely to them. Places sponsored etc etc. Whilst I welcome the move to vocational training. And for many people thats a brilliant move, ts disappointing that the report thinks that that's the main option for wcc's. Basically its says "we don't think your good enough for anything else " . BBC News - White working-class children 'failed by schools system' - BBC News https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq51j10q601o

ClarkeandNewman · 29/06/2026 09:57

BurnoutBee · 29/06/2026 09:34

I am a teaching assistant and I’ve worked in loads of different schools. I live in a council house and my kids are on free school meals. We solidly fit into the white working class bracket despite myself getting an OU degree (first).

Anyway, my own son is on track for straight As in his GCSEs according to his mocks and predictions. It is highly likely he will pass them all with flying colours. He is down from 300 applications to the final 10 for a competitive HR apprenticeship at our local council. To look at him, you would think, yeah bit of a lad. Swears a bit too much, loves football etc.

Anyway, back to me being a TA. White working class kids can succeed at school but the main factor in my opinion is how much that parent values education. So many white working class families simply don’t value education. It is exceptionally hard for the school and teachers to mitigate this attitude that comes from the home.

I will give you an example. I’ve work as an agency TA so switch schools a lot. There’s two primary schools I work at in an extremely deprived area. One is mainly full of white working class kids. The other school half a mile down the road is a Catholic school and is mainly black working class kids, some living in more poverty than their white counterparts. Anyway, I digress, I will ALWAYS take the Catholic school as a first choice with the black children because

A) the behaviour of said children is so much better

B) their parents and families value education and therefore these children tend to be brighter and more engaged

both of the above points make my day a lot easier. The behaviour, attitudes and values at the other school doesn’t even compare despite both sets of kids being from poorer backgrounds

My own 16 year old, working class lad is highly likely to achieve because we as his parents value education despite poorer and disadvantaged backgrounds ourselves. It mainly starts in the home tbh.

Your experience really does highlight the issue if how class is defined. Are you working class because of your housing or job? What happens when you gain a degree? What about your kids, they now have a university educated mum and achieve academically - are they working class? What do you base class on? Income, housing status, education, culture, job, identity? That's why I struggle to find meaning in this s new study and why I worry it's going to play straight into the hands of the hard and far right with their insistence (against all evidence) that white people face systemic discrimination in the UK.

HotSauceNow · 29/06/2026 09:58

A personal anecdote.

My eldest sat, and did well enough to get into, a highly selective grammar school in London. Over 90% of the pupils at the school (boys only) were of Indian, Pakistani or Bangladeshi ethnicity, double the rate in the borough as a whole. Those communities appear to highly value a grammar education, and are willing to commit use intense tutoring and work at home to try and get it, at a much higher rate than the local white population. This is absolutely not an exam you can just turn up and wing regardless of how bright you are.

Plenty of the local Asian population is not well off but zone in on this and do a lot of work at home if they can’t stretch to tuition centres. Ultimately we went private but the few white boys I know personally there have middle class professional parents who had also done through prep. It just doesn’t even seem to be on the radar of most working class white families.

LumiK · 29/06/2026 09:58

ClarkeandNewman · 29/06/2026 09:57

Your experience really does highlight the issue if how class is defined. Are you working class because of your housing or job? What happens when you gain a degree? What about your kids, they now have a university educated mum and achieve academically - are they working class? What do you base class on? Income, housing status, education, culture, job, identity? That's why I struggle to find meaning in this s new study and why I worry it's going to play straight into the hands of the hard and far right with their insistence (against all evidence) that white people face systemic discrimination in the UK.

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They do! If you choose to label anyone who has the guts to admit this as "far right", then you're part of the problem.

honeylulu · 29/06/2026 10:03

Duvetdayneeded · 29/06/2026 09:55

Don’t barrister earn pittance in the early years but then they go onto earn hundreds of thousands of pounds?

Pittance at first, yes. Ideally the aim is to be very high earning after a few years but it doesn't always work out. Barristers are self employed and a lot depends on getting in with the right Chambers, having the right contacts, networking to find the work, personal recommendations. If you get one bad trial result early on, it can be seriously problematic to your trajectory.

A lot of junior barristers just find it too hard. I work at a solicitors firm and quite a few of our fee earners are qualified barristers who just found the self employed system too precarious and definitely not lucrative enough. I also know a beautician who is a qualified barrister. She says for the first two years she earned almost nothing so she had to find another way to earn money.

SwatTheTwit · 29/06/2026 10:03

BurnoutBee · 29/06/2026 09:34

I am a teaching assistant and I’ve worked in loads of different schools. I live in a council house and my kids are on free school meals. We solidly fit into the white working class bracket despite myself getting an OU degree (first).

Anyway, my own son is on track for straight As in his GCSEs according to his mocks and predictions. It is highly likely he will pass them all with flying colours. He is down from 300 applications to the final 10 for a competitive HR apprenticeship at our local council. To look at him, you would think, yeah bit of a lad. Swears a bit too much, loves football etc.

Anyway, back to me being a TA. White working class kids can succeed at school but the main factor in my opinion is how much that parent values education. So many white working class families simply don’t value education. It is exceptionally hard for the school and teachers to mitigate this attitude that comes from the home.

I will give you an example. I’ve work as an agency TA so switch schools a lot. There’s two primary schools I work at in an extremely deprived area. One is mainly full of white working class kids. The other school half a mile down the road is a Catholic school and is mainly black working class kids, some living in more poverty than their white counterparts. Anyway, I digress, I will ALWAYS take the Catholic school as a first choice with the black children because

A) the behaviour of said children is so much better

B) their parents and families value education and therefore these children tend to be brighter and more engaged

both of the above points make my day a lot easier. The behaviour, attitudes and values at the other school doesn’t even compare despite both sets of kids being from poorer backgrounds

My own 16 year old, working class lad is highly likely to achieve because we as his parents value education despite poorer and disadvantaged backgrounds ourselves. It mainly starts in the home tbh.

I 100% agree, I’ve had this debate with DP many times over (solidly working class white English man) and we always end up in a big fall out over it.

He just doesn’t get that it starts at home. Some children might be motivated enough to bypass a poor home education, but most won’t be.

DD arguably grew up poorer than most of her peers, had to learn English to a fluent level in a short time frame, I didn’t have the financial
means or knowledge to help her with uni because I didn’t grow up here so I don’t know the system and yet she’s about to graduate and always had good grades throughout school even when she was still learning the language. Why? Because education has always been highly valued at home. It’s not because she was handed any more opportunities than her peers, not even close.

Similarly, my best friend was an immigrant in my home country and despite growing up very poor, she and her siblings are all thriving. Why? Because her parents made it their mission to drill the importance of education in them. It happens in every country.

ClarkeandNewman · 29/06/2026 10:04

1dayatatime · 29/06/2026 09:50

So there's a few points to cover before my conclusion:

Lets start with race, if we scroll back 50 to 70 years ago then there was clearly outright racism being practiced both in the workplace and in society. The goal and message became to educate people not to be racist. Now I think that by say 2000 that goal has largely been achieved and the vast majority of people are not racist, of course there will always be a minority of racists but no amount of education or discussion will ever make them change their views.
However rather than accept a win, the new objective became to be "anti racist" - namely seeking out instances of racism and calling them out. Unfortunately there is a greater demand to find "racism " than there is actual racism leading to ridiculous claims for example demands to rename The Masters golf tournament, on the grounds that the word "master" could be linked to the "Master-Slave" era of American history.

A similar example could be made on sexism in society and the workplace, where generally equality has been achieved but now the objective has become "anti sexism" trying to find instances of sexism or a belief that every decision by a man that goes against you must be due to sexism.

But coming to the conclusion that if you educate a young working class white male that a) they enjoy "white privilege" and that the history of white Britain is shameful. b) as a male they are part of society's problem and that they should be educated against toxic masculinity even if they are not. c) Positive discrimination and DEI initiatives work basically discriminate against them ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66060490?app-referrer=deep-link)

Then don't be surprised when you destroy the hopes, energy and ambitions of young white poor working class males, who simply "give up" in the same way as many young black poor males simply "gave up" in the time of Jim Crow laws in the US.

The scenario where what's the point of an ambition to become a lawyer or a doctor when those kind of jobs just happen to people like us.

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Incredibly surprising that you think racism and sexism have been more or less eliminated? From what position do you reach this conclusion?

ClarkeandNewman · 29/06/2026 10:07

LumiK · 29/06/2026 09:58

They do! If you choose to label anyone who has the guts to admit this as "far right", then you're part of the problem.

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Sorry, I really can't debate with someone who uses "has the guts" in seriousness.

EvelynBeatrice · 29/06/2026 10:09

I found ‘The Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother’ interesting on this point. The author’s view is that some ethnic groups value education extremely highly, especially those who are or were a generation or two back, refugees or from extreme poverty- ‘if you don’t work, you don’t eat’. Her view is that it’s always the parents. Based on the USA her view was that the bulk of blue collar worker parents didn’t care about education and took it for granted - it wasn’t valued because it is free.

Thedevilhasfinallycaughtupwithhim · 29/06/2026 10:13

Vocational courses are great but aren’t the simple solution to this problem.
This problem is cultural and entrenched.
Vocational courses are for kids who might not be best suited to academia but still turn up every day, work hard, listen and try.
There are many boys who don’t have those skills because they aren’t valued culturally.

chubley · 29/06/2026 10:13

SleepingStandingUp · 29/06/2026 09:31

the problem is not all kids are cut out for university, or want to go. they need viable alternatives that isn't casual work, zero hour contracts and worklessness. there's nothing shameful in wanting to learn a trade. dear lord, we'd be screwed without them. and it can be good steady employment. kids should be able to access training into that, including some kids who will be pushed into Unito do a degree they barely pass and never use again.We can't all be barristers and brain surgeons.

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And the graduates come away from uni with student debt which they either don’t reach the earnings threshold to repay or earn a few thousand over, unable to use their degrees and don’t have the social connections with business or aren’t the ones offered graduate jobs, so it’s a millstone around their neck for a long time. The current NEETs have seen this and turned their backs on uni.

CelestialCandyfloss · 29/06/2026 10:14

newlycorporategirl · 29/06/2026 09:21

Where's your evidence for the huge amount of bursaries exclusively for black boys? The vast majority of widening participation schemes target socioeconomic disadvantage. There are extremely few that are race specific.

The gulf here comes from family support and input, as well as families expecting schools to take ALL responsibility for every ounce of their child's education.

Completely agree. Also research shows that children from immigrant families often have better attainment than their white working class counterparts as such importance is placed on education, less so than by the white working class families. My daughter's friend is 2nd generation Chinese - she does so much extra curricular activities, studies every night and weekends, and it's a given that she will be a doctor or a lawyer. Her brother got the best GCSE results in the whole of our area. Their parents own a Chinese takeaway. It's a totally different mindset. I wish I could make my daughter have some of it, she's a bit lazy in comparison!!

Backedoffhackedoff · 29/06/2026 10:14

BurnoutBee · 29/06/2026 09:34

I am a teaching assistant and I’ve worked in loads of different schools. I live in a council house and my kids are on free school meals. We solidly fit into the white working class bracket despite myself getting an OU degree (first).

Anyway, my own son is on track for straight As in his GCSEs according to his mocks and predictions. It is highly likely he will pass them all with flying colours. He is down from 300 applications to the final 10 for a competitive HR apprenticeship at our local council. To look at him, you would think, yeah bit of a lad. Swears a bit too much, loves football etc.

Anyway, back to me being a TA. White working class kids can succeed at school but the main factor in my opinion is how much that parent values education. So many white working class families simply don’t value education. It is exceptionally hard for the school and teachers to mitigate this attitude that comes from the home.

I will give you an example. I’ve work as an agency TA so switch schools a lot. There’s two primary schools I work at in an extremely deprived area. One is mainly full of white working class kids. The other school half a mile down the road is a Catholic school and is mainly black working class kids, some living in more poverty than their white counterparts. Anyway, I digress, I will ALWAYS take the Catholic school as a first choice with the black children because

A) the behaviour of said children is so much better

B) their parents and families value education and therefore these children tend to be brighter and more engaged

both of the above points make my day a lot easier. The behaviour, attitudes and values at the other school doesn’t even compare despite both sets of kids being from poorer backgrounds

My own 16 year old, working class lad is highly likely to achieve because we as his parents value education despite poorer and disadvantaged backgrounds ourselves. It mainly starts in the home tbh.

I think this is a really interesting post as my take away from the example is completely different.

your son sounds amazing. All As at GCSE is incredible.

and what’s he getting out of it- an apprenticeship to work in HR at a local council? I think you’d find that a middle class boy would be expected to- and would likely achieve- a much more prestigious role than that.

To me, this reads that the working class boy sees this as a brilliant achievement, in the context of being working class and I think that shows the class discrimination we live every day in this country.

someone of your son’s academic achievement could be ie landing in the city and earning £600k a year at 30.

Backedoffhackedoff · 29/06/2026 10:17

EvelynBeatrice · 29/06/2026 10:09

I found ‘The Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother’ interesting on this point. The author’s view is that some ethnic groups value education extremely highly, especially those who are or were a generation or two back, refugees or from extreme poverty- ‘if you don’t work, you don’t eat’. Her view is that it’s always the parents. Based on the USA her view was that the bulk of blue collar worker parents didn’t care about education and took it for granted - it wasn’t valued because it is free.

I loved this book but the woman who wrote it is a fucking nutcase

EvelynBeatrice · 29/06/2026 10:18

Backedoffhackedoff · 29/06/2026 10:17

I loved this book but the woman who wrote it is a fucking nutcase

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I agree. But there was some interesting stuff nonetheless.

Appleblum · 29/06/2026 10:19

How do you define working class though? We all have a general idea of what working class means but when I read the news report it seems that their definition of it was white boys on free school meals, which is wrong, surely? It sounds more like white boys from poor backgrounds than white boys from working class families. I think maybe it would be more useful to conclude that the current education system is failing children from poor backgrounds (rather than working class).

Sunshineandoranges · 29/06/2026 10:19

Conundrummum123 · 29/06/2026 08:52

I have a theory on this and it’s privilege and entitlement because white working class girls from the same backgrounds far out perform boys and it’s not due to any positive discrimination. We’ve all seen it at work, in our families, mediocre white men rising to positions of relative power by dint of them being a white man, I think its become an expectation that as a white man you’ll ’do well’ no matter how mundane you are

we’ve also have or had a very linear understanding of what success means with university held up as the only means to succeed and vocational qualifications pushed to the side, and if you maybe aren’t that academic and then don’t have the support or means to gain support (via tuition) at home well what then. But there is a mentality piece because why would girls of the same background ‘do better’

Mist of the mediocre men you refer to were/are from middle class backgrounds and this applies to all races and now applies to both sexes.

DeafLeppard · 29/06/2026 10:19

I thought Battle Hymn of a Tiger Mother was great. I also think this is an issue that absolutely can never be solved by schools. It's a parental expectation thing.

Yogafiend · 29/06/2026 10:19

ClarkeandNewman · 29/06/2026 09:57

Your experience really does highlight the issue if how class is defined. Are you working class because of your housing or job? What happens when you gain a degree? What about your kids, they now have a university educated mum and achieve academically - are they working class? What do you base class on? Income, housing status, education, culture, job, identity? That's why I struggle to find meaning in this s new study and why I worry it's going to play straight into the hands of the hard and far right with their insistence (against all evidence) that white people face systemic discrimination in the UK.

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Working class is typically defined by three factors. Your socio-economic background, economic security and your type of job. So for example if you gain a degree and do well and have a high salary you won’t fit it in the working class bucket when it comes to economic security or type of job but culturally you are still working class culturally.

Backedoffhackedoff · 29/06/2026 10:19

CelestialCandyfloss · 29/06/2026 10:14

Completely agree. Also research shows that children from immigrant families often have better attainment than their white working class counterparts as such importance is placed on education, less so than by the white working class families. My daughter's friend is 2nd generation Chinese - she does so much extra curricular activities, studies every night and weekends, and it's a given that she will be a doctor or a lawyer. Her brother got the best GCSE results in the whole of our area. Their parents own a Chinese takeaway. It's a totally different mindset. I wish I could make my daughter have some of it, she's a bit lazy in comparison!!

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The thing is you can’t recreate the immigrant experience to use it to the benefit British white working class boys.

immigrants have given up a huge amount for a better life in another country so make the most of that opportunity. They make enormous sacrifices to do so. It’s not replicable for someone who doesn’t have that background

HoppityBun · 29/06/2026 10:20

Newforspring · 29/06/2026 09:47

I absolute see what you’re saying and the post office anecdote is wild and so frustrating.

However currently young doctors are struggling to find jobs and there are far too many law graduates. Houses that haven’t been renovated since the 70s or 80s which need rewired replumbed new heating system, patio and windows are lying on the market as buyers know that labour costs make that a £250k job - we have to take apart what we think and put it back together again. Theres a uni in the us doing a (free) joint honours degree in the arts & a trade - unsurprisingly its booming. (It’s run by a religious foundation which would be off putting to many, but still a fascinating idea. They are trying to close the gap between wanting a solid lucrative career and learning ‘ideas’ with no current practical application.)

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I still think that the ending of polytechnic education was a huge loss of skills and educational opportunities. Added to which, polytechnics provided education and training for all ages. It seems to me that there is a greater need now than ever before to provide ways to retrain, upskill and diversify.

Tauranga · 29/06/2026 10:21

ClarkeandNewman · 29/06/2026 10:07

Sorry, I really can't debate with someone who uses "has the guts" in seriousness.

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There we are then

JudgeJ · 29/06/2026 10:21

TamTam5 · 29/06/2026 08:44

There absolutely should be more vocational courses and apprenticeships for all. The current focus on uni and little else is broken and I think in some way contributing to the high levels of poor MH health and school refusal we have.

Edited

You think we need a system where children are educated according to their abilities, ie some are more suited to technical and vocational courses rather than an academic course, that we recognise that the majority of children need to literate in many areas without being crammed with the more abstract ideas? It's a bit of deja vu, I wonder why it was thrown away?

nomas · 29/06/2026 10:21

One of the reasons why kids from other backgrounds are doing better has been the push to get them into university...ie black boys being actively recruited and bursarys being given solely to them. Places sponsored etc etc.

Do you have any source for this?

IStillHearTheWaves · 29/06/2026 10:27

There is nothing wrong with vocational training and jobs!

I wish people would be more realistic about a person's academic abilities and stop looking down their noses on blue collar jobs. I think it's better to follow a career and training that you're suited to and good at, rather than getting a poor degree from a questionable establishment, saddled with a debt the size of a house deposit.

SeasideDaisy · 29/06/2026 10:27

TamTam5 · 29/06/2026 08:44

There absolutely should be more vocational courses and apprenticeships for all. The current focus on uni and little else is broken and I think in some way contributing to the high levels of poor MH health and school refusal we have.

Edited

My son who is 24 did an apprenticeship straight out of school and is now a qualified electrician (he earns way above average for his age group too)
He was telling me that the issue with companies not wanting to take on 16 year olds now that they have to spend 4 years training is because they have to pay them to much. When he started his wages were £4.50ph and was fine with that because it’s training. The minimum for an apprenticeship now is at least double that, it’s not worth it for the employer.
On top of that a lot of people seem to think.. don’t do well at school get a trade and it’s not like that at all, I think to even qualify for his electrician course my son needed 6 exams above level 4/5 including maths and English.