White working class children

[NotAnotherScarf]

The bbc has a report about a review of the academic system failing white working class children. The bulk of the population.

It's brilliant that this has been looked at but the recommendations are appalling.

Basically its saying that wcc's are only fit for manual jobs. That schools should push towards offering for vocational courses.

That's where my education went 40 years ago. One child from my year group of 242 went to university at 18. We had at most 6 kids from non white backgrounds. Many went subsequently. I have always maintained the school saw us as shop assistants, factory hands and dockers.

The other recommendations will help children of all races...free travel under 22. Promoting reading etc.

One of the reasons why kids from other backgrounds are doing better has been the push to get them into university...ie black boys being actively recruited and bursarys being given solely to them. Places sponsored etc etc.

Whilst I welcome the move to vocational training. And for many people thats a brilliant move, ts disappointing that the report thinks that that's the main option for wcc's. Basically its says "we don't think your good enough for anything else " .

BBC News - White working-class children 'failed by schools system' - BBC News
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq51j10q601o

Completely agree.

No, this was your point:

“running this system where we help and support people coming into the country but we neglect and despise the native population?”

Not always true as criteria doesn't specify.

Sure, it's a problem for a lot of kids, and to some extent even well off ones, that they see a limited number of career options in their lives.

Hairdressing is not easy to do well, and I don't think a lot of people really appreciate that.

What is wrong with this opinion ?

Why can’t she be a doctor, a lawyer or engineer?

you must earn a terribly small amount if a hairdresser earns x4 what you do, but working in a library isn’t aspirational either tbf.

Why can’t the hairdresser-to-be aim for the sky?

Because we don’t neglect and despise the “native population”?! As demonstrated by the work that’s gone into supporting British black Boys.

Of course the majority will be white pupils. The majority of pupils are in fact white.

If bursaries are by need, and there are more non-white students in need, there really should be no necessity to make race or ethnicity a factor. It will help more of them, proportionally.

Agree - what the report should have highlighted is that in areas which are predominantly ‘white working class’ there needs to be a systemic change in the way education is delivered - there needs to be initiatives to engage families and parents [many of whom were let down by that same system themselves] and ways to bring up educational standards. Rather than bloody breakfast clubs, they need to be running free summer schools focussing on improving maths and literacy to expected key stage levels, with a side helping of outdoor ed to build social skills and self confidence - so that parents who are financially not in a position to book summer clubs etc have a safe affordable space to support their kids.

The chap that invented AI said he recommends a trade these days and so do I as an academic and a professional in the area I studied for.

I do well (higher rate tax band) but my tradesman partner out earns me and works half the time! He didn't do particularly well at school but has a strong engineering mind.

I've said to the kids they have to present a very strong argument for University when they reach that age.

I used to be so sniffy about trades like most of mumsnet but have definitely changed my view!

I personally think that’s a myth. I have never heard anyone getting a job to fill a quota. I have heard people say things like “and it works well as it’s a woman” but let’s be honest no woman or non white person have been given a job to fill a “quota”.

@ClarkeandNewmanNo, in my book ‘progress’ isn’t dismissing the bulk of the majority population’s
cultural inheritance as shameful, intrinsically harmful or no longer relevant. White kids need a firm sense of who they are and where they’ve come from every bit as much as black and Asian kids do, and all groups need some kind of overarching story and sense of cohesiveness, rather than endless repetition of meaningless mantras such as ‘Diversity Is Our Strength’. The kids at some of the schools I’ve worked in weren’t getting that.

Of course primary schools aren’t teaching Critical Race Theory as a discrete curriculum subject; there would be uproar! But the messages are embedded more implicitly in other curriculum areas and decolonising the curriculum, the ideology of which stems from this theory, is happening across the entire school system - our school spent a year and a considerable amount of money redesigning theirs.

No, we don't need a change in how education is delivered. We need a change in the attitudes of the parents of the marginalised white boys (and girls) who are the focus of this study. Fix that before people start yet again messing about with the education system - which we know works well for those financially disadvantaged communities where education is valued.

Teacher for 20 years.The biggest hindrance to the advancement of white wc children is white wc parents. There are bright children at the bottom of the ladder but they have parents who don't think better things are for them/ that they don't belong/ that it will make them 'posh' and they can't cope with it. My SIL is one of them. Her daughter ( not my brother's child) is bright but university has been ruled out because her mum doesn't want her to leave home. None of them have been to uni and so she isn't going either.

Or: it's opinion masquerading as fact and it's bollocks?

I know why certain demographics are aimed at within the Grant system. I know. White working class are underperforming compared to black and Bangladeshi applicants but the grant system never changes.

White working class people are not the flavour of the decade. They are not expected to achieve. I see them get written off in school, by their teachers and by society at large.

These are white teachers BTW.

Hair or care, anyone??

I think the top half of barristers, especially those in London, do earn a lot. There are quite a few that don’t.

Of course a working class boy should have the option to be a barrister. But he, and everyone, should know the reality of insane hours and chambers fees and being self employed and dealing with some quite horrible people and frankly, other people’s top connections helping them understand the system and network effectively for themselves. So that they truly understand what they’re up against and getting into. Not just like: a barrister sounds posh and aspirational, do that’.

I actually started out in law as it is beloved by NI aspirational state grammars as it looks good (see also: medicine) and know massive numbers of women my age who are mostly solicitors in and out of house and some barristers. The most successful two barrister have parents who are - surprise! Between them a judge, a KC and a partner in a law firm. Many of the other solicitors are reasonably successful but stressed and many not that happy. I left and did something completely different as I quickly realised that the reality was very different for me than the image.

The inquiry has used an interesting definition of white working class: "white British nationals eligible for free school meals". I would imagine that the vast majority of these are not the children of the plumbers/roofers/hairdressers referred to by various posters above.

I would love to hear if your experience in the NI education system aligns with people’s thoughts here?

My concerns are more that young people are pushed towards university and don’t get shown the value of learning trades. Those who don’t make it to uni get the message that they aren’t as high achieving. Then there are a shortage of skilled tradespeople and a surplus of graduates looking for ‘grad jobs’. I would like to see value being put on a wider variety of jobs and careers. This sounds very positive to me - a range of options is a good thing.

CRT is a way of analysing systemic and institutional (rather than individual) racism and of looking at how "race" is socially constructed. White privilege involves looking at the advantage - or lack of disadvantage - experienced by people who don't have additional hurdles, obstacles and discrimination because of their ethnic background. It has nothing to do with white people being dismissed or their cultural experiences reframed as shameful.

I think this message is becoming increasingly popular with young people of my DC age, especially degree apprenticeships. However the competition to get on them is incredibly fierce.

I have to disagree with you and I think your interpretation is a bit muddy. You talk as if they're pushing apprenticeships onto white children, but it says they'll provide more apprenticeships opportunities for all children.

Then you say
The other recommendations will help children of all races...free travel under 22. Promoting reading etc.

You say that white working class is the 'bulk of the population', so these ideas WILL help WWC children. Plus the article specifically says to make reading fluency a priority for white working class children, not all children as you say here. I do think maybe you need to give it another read.

I also just disagree on the principle, I think it's a good initiative. Not perfect, as someone else points out it would be better for it to be based on more quantitative data rather than qualitative. However there have been many other studies in this area that I'm sure will inform policy.

The academic route has been pushed for many years, including many schemes to benefit WWC children. Look at the number of people from working class backgrounds attending university now. I myself got a first generation scholar grant which is still available. It's been done for a long time but we're not seeing great outcomes from it in terms of careers and earning potential.

The other aspect is, as many others have said, it's a culture thing. Many studies have shown that non-white and immigrant parents place far more value on education, pass these values on and push their children with education, and WWC families value academia less. Obviously this is a general trend and I don't mean every single WWC family is like this.

But I think we need to meet people where they're at. If there are some families, regardless of demographic, who value vocational, physical, social, life skills more than academia, then let's set up opportunities they'll value and that our country needs. We need more trades, and you can earn very good money from them.

It's interesting to hear a right leaning person wanting the government to step in and do more, as I often see the right wanting less government involvement ('nanny state') and more individual responsibility.

I will read the BBC report and also look for other coverage across the media so I can make my own mind up about the findings. I am surprised to read that some burseries are only available to black children, my gut instinct is to query the accuracy of this so i'm off to do some further reading.

My brother and I are white working class - He has been a chartered engineer for some years now.