White working class children

[NotAnotherScarf]

The bbc has a report about a review of the academic system failing white working class children. The bulk of the population.

It's brilliant that this has been looked at but the recommendations are appalling.

Basically its saying that wcc's are only fit for manual jobs. That schools should push towards offering for vocational courses.

That's where my education went 40 years ago. One child from my year group of 242 went to university at 18. We had at most 6 kids from non white backgrounds. Many went subsequently. I have always maintained the school saw us as shop assistants, factory hands and dockers.

The other recommendations will help children of all races...free travel under 22. Promoting reading etc.

One of the reasons why kids from other backgrounds are doing better has been the push to get them into university...ie black boys being actively recruited and bursarys being given solely to them. Places sponsored etc etc.

Whilst I welcome the move to vocational training. And for many people thats a brilliant move, ts disappointing that the report thinks that that's the main option for wcc's. Basically its says "we don't think your good enough for anything else " .

BBC News - White working-class children 'failed by schools system' - BBC News
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq51j10q601o

I disagree with you on so many points! But that's fine, we can agree to disagree 😁

Your aggressive attitude is what makes me think you perhaps have underlying issues with being WC, you've got that reactive thing going on. You are right about me not being impressed with non teaching progress leaders. Had you been a bit older you would have remembered when Year Heads were senior teachers, understood what they were looking at in terms of progress data as they used it themselves to inform their own teaching, and understood the impact that poor behaviour had on learning whether that was from other students or class teachers, and yes I did see it from colleagues on occasion. Now 'pastoral' is just following procedure with no real benefit to anyone. My point was, standards have dramatically slipped over the past twenty years or so and this has impacted MC kids in state schools too.

I disagree that just working class kids have more barriers to state education though. In my experience it was the WC kids that have every resource going thrown at them and every reward and trip for free. It was the MC kids who came in every day, did their stuff and quietly got on with it with no incentive, bribes or free trips to London that missed out. I was the Aim Higher coordinator in my school for the four years it ran and that whole programme was designed to broaden participation in Higher Education for kids on FSM. I had quite a healthy budget to take that cohort places and have speakers in to work with them in school and they got opportunities the MC kids could only dream of! Even now the PP cohort gets free music lessons and subsidised or free educational visits. The MC kids with average earning parents struggle to replicate the opportunities the WC kids get already. It's the state system that's the issue as it only works for a minority of kids of any social class.

And finally, get that idea out of your head is a pretty standard saying around here? It's not rude or aggressive so I'm not quite sure what's triggered you with that?

I think the debate would be a lot more productive if we stopped throwing the words working class in every 5 minutes when what we really mean are children who are either disadvantaged by poverty or lack of academic culture within their upbringing; or, who's own skill set leans away from the academic.
A large chunk of UK adults are not academically inclined and will have a natural ceiling on what they can ever achieve in this area. If they were raised by parents who could avoid to artificially inflate their natural abilities with additional input then they will achieve more certificates than those who couldn't. But they will still be going against their grain, and will have to struggle and work harder than the naturally academic their whole lives.
Their lives could be happier and more productive in roles suited to their abilities, and more opportunities need to be given to prepare for these roles in school.
While outside of school we need to ensure these roles recieve the respect and reward they deserve, rather than being seen as something second rate you have to do if you don't go to university.
Children like this will be found in all walks of life. And an educational system that provides no development of practical and technical skills, focusing solely on academics as a measure of success, will fail them all.
This is a different problem from that of children who have academic potential, but are not achieving it due to barriers caused by poverty, scarce resources or lack of parental buy in.
We need to address both. But to do so we need to acknowledge them as seperate, rather than lump them together as a problem for 'the working class' when we can barely reach consensus on what that even means.

@TheSnootiestFox

I haven’t been aggressive. You’re entitled to your view of my tone, as I am of yours I guess, but I don’t think it’s helpful to speculate on my relationship with my social class. I’d much rather stick to discussing the topic itself.

I agree with you by the way. I think there’s no place for unqualified staff in heads of year/SLT roles, but white working class kids were still underachieving, long, long before the introduction of unqualified staff. I know exactly what the HOY role does. Yes the whole system needs an overhaul.

I am not here stating MC kids haven’t failed with the current educational system. Plenty of them are still doing just fine. A lot of them do not face the same structural barriers, hence why targeted aim higher programmes don’t exist for them.

I know exactly what you mean, as my son and some of his peers have been taken on such trips. Whilst enriching at the time for him and plenty of his peers, it hasn’t worked in the sense of bringing up many of his friends academic scores on the mock exams. Which kind of proves my original point.

School do try to bridge the gap, you’ve done this yourself. Often, it doesn’t work. It doesn’t mean schools shouldn’t try, but the main factor to academic success for a WC class kid is how much their parents value education. How invested there are in the home. In my opinion.

@BurnoutBee has been far from aggressive.

If dc are getting extra help via Pp money, schools are expected to make sure it actually does something to help the dc that can be measured. Otherwise it’s not value for money. It’s certainly not just going to the self styled working class either. Many who class themselves as this have decent paying jobs and it’s not a helpful label in many ways. Clear targeted help works better. Homework clubs properly resourced and staffed, mentoring etc are better for raising attainment and aspiration but often dc don’t see the benefits of education because no one around them does. It’s very much about work opportunities and seeing a better future but many are blinkered by circumstances.

Many WC kids have to share a bedroom and have no dining room or separate room for them to revise in.

Their parents may both be in full time work, so no parent around to supervise their study.

Parents might work shifts and rely on them to babysit younger siblings so taking time and energy away from study.

WC kids may rely on Saturday jobs and evening work to pay for their clothes, help out the family.

No tutors as they cannot afford them.

Taking these children out of school to events and so on does help their confidence, but it cannot make the gargantuan differences that have to be taken in to account when comparing a MC student with a WC student.

@Tauranga You are equating working class with poverty and poor housing and that’s simply not right. If 2 people are earning, it’s unlikely child is on fsm and would not get pp. people self style themselves as working class but quite often they are not poor. Quite often they have skills and make a good living. As I said, having a homework club at school and mentoring is the way to go and gets around lack of space and time poor parents. Many working class people are not deprived though.

He’s literally been found racist in a court of law. He had to pay damages for being a racist to a Syrian refugee teenager who he falsely accused purely because of his ethnicity.

Your denials aren’t working anymore.

Yes, agreed, and is then called ‘aggressive’ in an attempt to shut her up. Ridiculous.

I just love this use of the word "literally ", as if inserting it into a sentence somehow makes that sentence factually correct.

TR was convicted of contempt of court not racism. Making stuff up doesn't work anymore- people will fake check you:

Tommy Robinson jailed for contempt of court https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c704eedkqkvo

Yes, because he was racist to a Syrian refugee teenager. Funny how you avoid that.

Your attempts at semantics don’t work anymore.

Neither are yours and you tried VERY hard.

"Racist. No. I dislike everyone equally." 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 made me laugh!!

Wow ?

Came here in 2008. Everyone I know in the Asian community works hard and lives very simple lives. No holidays are common in immigrant communities.
Asians do not have the pub or bar culture. Most of my friends do not allow experimentation with drugs or dating too early with their teens . Every evening is about studying to get into Uni in my community.

I actually am not a big fan of this nor proud of it, but this is why Asians get into grammar schools and uni in such large numbers. We get absolutely no preferential treatment. We bear the shame of being referred to us having gotten off small boats, when actually we paid a lot and worked very hard for our visas (paid to british govt) to come here and worked here for 10 years without the slightest Govt benefits eligibility, I have been eligible for benefits now for 8 years but I still have not or will use them, I will continue to work hard or live on my own savings.

I only came here at the time as my country had been made extremely poor during the Colonial rule it underwent by Imperial Britain for 100s of years, where some of the worst atrocities of human rights ever happened (read up jalianwala bagh massacre by the British) and yet the response was non violence, grace and friendship led by Gandhi. Britain could only afford a 'non-working' class during that time. Now like the rest of the world, British have to be 'working class' too? except for some still living on colonial excesses?

Shame on you

Or was it African Migrants taking away free benefits you were worried about? The 4 pc elbowing out the 81pc ? Shame on you

Group
Approx. share
White
~81%
Asian / Asian British
~9%
Black / Black British
~4%
Mixed / Multiple ethnic groups
~3%
Other ethnic groups
~2%

Who are you actually trying to shame?

OP

Actually unless I misread the OP, in which case I retract and go back to my corner of course. Thanks for still having me.

@BritishIndian Big chip there and somewhat irrelevant. If India was so amazing why didn’t Indians take advantage before we turned up? I don’t like this continual blaming of others when the Indians had untold riches. And fought with each other! Talk about blaming the country you now live in!

Sorry, overreacted to OPs post

Now the I read it closely, its more against upper class vs working class?, except the one point on migrants getting free bursaries to school (rest assured OP, we have to work double harder is my lived experience) and that does not seem to be Indians /Asians so I'll apologise.

My son was absolutely shocked that people in his 6th form at a grammar school casually did drugs.

Sorry, very grateful for when growing up in India - the post colonial English education system ,railways etc. Grateful to have had the opportunity to come here and my children to have the chance to aspire to Oxbridge etc. Thanks

I overreacted

Fought with each other ? Lol

The country I live in is Democratic Britain , moderate and left of center, not Imperial Britain. So you make a mistake when you say my reference to 'Imperial- Britain' is to the country I live in, it most certainly is not.

We would not as British ppl get anyone paying for student visas and tourist visas and work visas if that were the country we still lived in, even if we tried selling them at markdown to zero.

While on the topic, OP - check out how much we in Britain make in annual national revenue from foreign student visas at universities across the UK and fancy boarding private schools in the UK - from places like China and India
It may make you feel better. In scotland, scottish white people simultaneously want to keep uni education free for their children , as they do want it to be easy for their kids to get into Law and other competitive fields, without foreign competition, despite Universities, and the Govt reiterating that Scottish white kids could not be given funding without the foreign student fees

Cake . Eating it, having it. Having it, eating it. We want both do we not. My DC gets a funded place too and I am annoyed at the foreign competition, I would rather pay the fees so the unis give more seats to us locals. But I CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS said with Gandhian gentleness, and grace, only in caps for emphasis without voice and tone use available in written form

Why is this thread being derailed? This is about the educational disadvantage working class white kids face.