White working class children

[NotAnotherScarf]

The bbc has a report about a review of the academic system failing white working class children. The bulk of the population.

It's brilliant that this has been looked at but the recommendations are appalling.

Basically its saying that wcc's are only fit for manual jobs. That schools should push towards offering for vocational courses.

That's where my education went 40 years ago. One child from my year group of 242 went to university at 18. We had at most 6 kids from non white backgrounds. Many went subsequently. I have always maintained the school saw us as shop assistants, factory hands and dockers.

The other recommendations will help children of all races...free travel under 22. Promoting reading etc.

One of the reasons why kids from other backgrounds are doing better has been the push to get them into university...ie black boys being actively recruited and bursarys being given solely to them. Places sponsored etc etc.

Whilst I welcome the move to vocational training. And for many people thats a brilliant move, ts disappointing that the report thinks that that's the main option for wcc's. Basically its says "we don't think your good enough for anything else " .

BBC News - White working-class children 'failed by schools system' - BBC News
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq51j10q601o

@Machinemasoluem

Yes I know exactly what you mean. I just checked, back in 2020 the threshold was 16k and under if you were in receipt of tax credits, which we were. My TA wage was under that.

My sister is in receipt of UC. She has four children, works full time. Earns 28k per annum. So her children will now be entitled to FSM. So yes I understand your point. The stats are going to be massively watered down.

Many white working-class families reject academic routes because they feel it's a waste of money unless you know what you want to do. They don't suffer from academic snobbery either. University is not the panacea for success; often, they will go back to education later or gain industry-relevant training and qualifications.

We need to think more critically about how we measure success and stop with the patronising nonsense.

@aquashiv

My son is likely to get some great GCSE results. He’s hopefully going to get an apprenticeship as soon as possible. (He’s 16)

A-Levels is 5 days a week so he would struggle to get a part time job. He wants to drive. We can’t afford his lessons. He knows this. He knows he’s going to have to earn some money if he wants things like lads holidays, gym membership, a car etc. He has a few friends at school who are staying on but they will be funded more by their parents.

Level 3 courses at college with A Level equivalency are 3 days a week, freeing up 2 days to work. So that’s another option for him.

If he really wanted to do A-Levels we would have supported him (as he will definitely get the results he needs) but I can say I sighed with some relief when he said he didn’t want to do them.

I guess that’s another point to make isn’t it? If they complete A Levels that is a further 2 years where they cannot earn money. Which is fine in some families, but not really ideal in mine. As I said, my son wants a phone membership, a gym membership, tickets to festivals, driving lessons. When you have multiple kids, these things can quickly become very unaffordable. He is very outgoing. He’s going to need to fund his social life even at 16 and 17+

I think the extent you intrinsically feel you belong to a class depends on your surroundings. In a city like London that has seen huge swathes of gentrification in certain areas it is very noticeable.

In my case, I grew up in a working-class undesirable part of the city that became steadily more desirable and middle-class as the years passed. It became a completely different place from the one I grew up in and it was impossible to not feel and notice the class differences. When your neighbourhood changes from an inclusive, diverse place into one that clearly targets people who can afford expensive eateries, art galaries, pilates/yoga studios and other markers of middle-class then you notice the difference. At my DC's primary school there was a very clear divide between MC parents who all congreated together and dominated the PTA vs the WC parents. It's not necessarily spoken about a lot but you feel it intrinsically when the place you grew up and love changes and you become displaced by wealthier newcomers.

They are thinking about what they'd like to be.

Vet - university
Teacher - university
Doctor - university
Nurse - university
Like Bruce Banner/the Hulk - university
Like Peter Parker/Spiderman - university
Like Matt Murdock/Daredevil - university
Like Tony Stark - university
Like Sheldon Cooper/etc - university
Like Dr Xavier - university
Like T'Challa/Black Panther - university
A Ghostbuster - university
Astronaut - university
Archaeologist - university
Paleontologist - university
Living with gorillas/saving elephants/research/fighting killer sharks/octopuses/aliens - university

Bob the Builder and Postman Pat were exceptions to the general rule that out of the characters children see and the heroes they see, a significant number are all university educated - even the magical ones - so anything related is automatically out of the question if they have a parent who is not academically inclined and wishes to get those stupid ideas out of their head as quickly as possible.

No, because the FSM is separated at census into Targeted FSM and Expanded FSM. The Targeted is the same group as previously and will attract Pupil Premium, the Expanded will not.

The MIS companies just have to get their acts together and release the updates that will make this possible - preferably before 1st September when kids will be needing to be fed in the next 24 hours or so.

@BurnoutBee I just want to say I think you have a much more nuanced and accurate take on things. I'm not sure why you're being attacked for your posts, other than that generally happens on most threads on MNet.

Oh, and entitlements will have to be renewed annually from now on, so kids will drop off the PP list (unless somebody decides for comparability that they will still use the Ever 6 marker which remains).

But what little kid who wants to be a ghostbuster is thinking about whether the ghost busters went to university?
I just don’t think it’s typical for many 8 year olds to know about uni whether they’re rich, poor, black, white or Asian. Said as a parent of a current 8 year old.

Well apparently starmer is trying to reduce fees for EU students at our struggling unis ! All the while apparently 50 billion is owing from EU student loans.

They'd know from the Dr bit and the bits about research, being kicked out from the university - the whole story, really. Like Dr Henry Jones Jr lecturing, etc, etc. They may not know in words that somebody has to get x at gcse and then a level and go through UCAS, but they see heroes in film, television and cartoons who are intrinsically highly educated. For some children, that doesn't mean it's impossible, but for others, just that fact means their parents will ensure that it's never even going to come up as more than a funny story about what they said they wanted to be when they grew up.

I don’t think most 8 year olds think that deeply about whether the hulk or the ghostbusters went to university. Most don’t know the difference between college and university (if they’ve even heard of either) not to mention Americans call university college so watching superhero films isn’t going to add to the understanding.

I’m a white, working-class male with straight As. In Britain, I’m a second-class citizen

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/6750bf4e799eea14

Gift article from the telegraph.

Treasury ditched numeracy test to increase diversity hires

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/7ee116f7bba68c6d

So you need lower maths grades if not white?

Many parents begin dropping hints or even having simple conversations with their children about careers and university during the elementary school years. I certainly did. It never hurts to broaden children's horizons and show them that there's a wider world out there waiting for them.

Why are schools limited in what they can do?

Are there no careers/ university counselors? I went to school in Ireland back in the early 1980s and even then we had a careers/ university counselor who did aptitude testing and did talks for the whole year as well as multiple individual interviews with all the students in the last two years of school to help guide them in whatever direction would be best for them, and making sure anyone who left after the Inter Cert had a definite plan in mind for work.

Exactly. I find it quite frustrating and disturbing that so many people are effectively saying working class people aren’t fit for tertiary education.

What a terrible, protracted whine. Do you see why that article is problematic?

this. Crab bucket teaching starts young same as everything else. You see it on here "I come from a culture where......."

This is insane!

Our 8 year olds weren’t watching Spider-Man thinking - well he’s deviated from his studies hasn’t he mother!

Our 15 year old, 10 GCSEs (all A grades predicted) still doesn’t know what he wants to do.

Does he need to? He’s being 15, embracing every opportunity offered to him, having fun with his friends and trying to fit in a complicated World Cup watching schedule.

And I still am not sure he would connect Spider-Man with university!

but that's a self fulfilling prophecy. Children from different backgrounds may not be explicitly told "don't go to university" but they will definitely have embedded in them "what is for people like us" What's the saying? "Give me a child until they are six and they will be mine for life"

The decline in academic achievement from WC boys will be complex that will include schools, home life, role models, peers, online influence, physical and mental health, expectations at home.

We as a society will become less rounded if working class experience, creativity, understanding and knowledge isn’t part of the input in our creative, political, social and practical lives.

I am sure we are all aware of the divided society we are currently living in, bridging that divide to have a flourishing society for all is essential. Most schools try to do this, but they can only do so much.

They say this due to Snobbery.

Middle class absolutely hate white working class, but could never admit it.
Their toes curl; they deride their clothes, their make up, their holidays, their accents, their cars, their ambitions...and their issues, politically and socially.

The rape of the young white girls which is making headline news was ignored and brushed under the carpet for so long, because of snobbery. The middle class who could have stopped these atrocities thought young girls of 12 presenting with in A and E with internal injuries and std was normal for poor white girls.

Tommy Robinson, claxon of these rapes, is ignored and derided because he is white working class. He raises the same issues as Douglas Murray, an incredibly well spoken and 'posh' commentator; but one is listened to and one is sneered at. ( Jeremy Paxman).

This is why on here they think working class whites should aim for being a plumber but their son will be more suited to law.

They are raging snobs.

Agree and this has massively distorted our society. So many things are happening against the wishes of the majority: grooming gang ringleader released early, abuse of white girls ignored and covered up, foreign criminals not deported, race action plans leading to two tier policing, asylum seekers prioritised for newly built social housing etc.

Child of WC parents here and I totally agree. My parents didn't talk about university or not, they talked to us about what we wanted to do with our lives (starting with what do you want to do when you grow up) and how to get there. I am old now, no kids myself but my sibs have and they (sibs) took the same attitude. GCSE's are just a step on the way, same with degrees, their value lies in getting you onto the next step on the way. I am in no way denigrating learning for the love of it but there needs to be a balance too.