White working class children

[NotAnotherScarf]

The bbc has a report about a review of the academic system failing white working class children. The bulk of the population.

It's brilliant that this has been looked at but the recommendations are appalling.

Basically its saying that wcc's are only fit for manual jobs. That schools should push towards offering for vocational courses.

That's where my education went 40 years ago. One child from my year group of 242 went to university at 18. We had at most 6 kids from non white backgrounds. Many went subsequently. I have always maintained the school saw us as shop assistants, factory hands and dockers.

The other recommendations will help children of all races...free travel under 22. Promoting reading etc.

One of the reasons why kids from other backgrounds are doing better has been the push to get them into university...ie black boys being actively recruited and bursarys being given solely to them. Places sponsored etc etc.

Whilst I welcome the move to vocational training. And for many people thats a brilliant move, ts disappointing that the report thinks that that's the main option for wcc's. Basically its says "we don't think your good enough for anything else " .

BBC News - White working-class children 'failed by schools system' - BBC News
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq51j10q601o

Bang on. Living in bubbles and echo chambers tends to do that.

Stephen Yaxley Lennon is decried because he's an extremist far-right agitator. He should be shunned. He is no champion of working class women - if he was he'd be pointing out the underlying misogyny that made this terrible crime possible.

Also there's irony in the way you talk about the snobbery of middle class people yet advocate an article from the Telegraph (which at any rate is exclusive, generally being behind a pay-wall) where a white man with no obvious disadvantage complains about schemes to support academic achievement for young black people, claiming they constitute "anti-white discrimination"!

I'm shocked you called Tommy Robinson Stephen Yaxley Lennon.
I'm shocked that you call him far right.

He says the same as Douglas Murray but you pick on Tommy.

Thank you for proving my point.

An you explain the irony?

FSM is not a good definition of working class. At all.
The eligibility is earning less than 7.4k a year so barely anyone and its hardly working and will include children busy caring for disabled parents who don’t have time for homework, children who’s parents have alcohol or even drug problems.

Absolutely no judgement from me my child gets FSM (I was only 16 when I had him and he was eligible when he started school but once you get them it lasts until the end of primary school)

In September every child whose parents receive universal credit will be eligible for FSM so millions more children and from more ordinary working families. Even some middle class families receive universal credit so FSM still won’t be a good definition of working class.
I think this issue of FSM kids doing far worse than non FSM kids will correct itself when that happens.

I also disagree with the idea all non white parents care more about studying and discipline than white parents.

In the way that everything you could do is limited based on time and resources. Schools will focus on what they are measured on. Anything else they do will depend on the school and the teachers.

Your experience sounds decent. I was at one of the top ranked state schools in Scotland in the 90's. We did a computer test thing, I think called jig-cal that gave you career ideas based on your interests (I remember it suggested lorry driver to me). The school library had a shelf of uni prospectuses, and we had a lesson about how to fill in a UCAS form. Those applying to uni had a 5min chat with the head (mainly to tell you off if you had applied to England!). I can't remember anything else - so if you weren't going to uni there would have been very little for you. Perhaps there was more I didn't see, but the general ethos was much more that it was up to you and your families to work things out.

You're shocked that I used his real name? You're shocked that I described his political position?

At this point you'd use the fact that I can write as evidence that you believe I'm a middle class progressive and therefore a snob. If you can't formulate an argument and you tell us that the far-right is the only force that can help, nobody needs to take you seriously because, well, why should they? It's nonsense.

I literally just did. In the post that you're asking me to explain. It's all there.

Your reply is nonsense though, isn't it.

"If you can't formulate an argument and you tell us that the far-right is the only force that can help"

You made this up.

Saying something is ironic, does not make it so.

In what way is my post containing an article pertaining to this thread ironic?

That attitude absolutely does not come from home and not all education staff try their hardest so please remove that idea from your head.

I am as middle class as they come, I am educated to postgraduate level and have been since my 20s, and was an actual teacher for the bulk of my career although am now a local government officer. My ex husband and the father of my children is an optician, neither of us are what you could call thick! My elder son failed his GCSEs spectacularly and is now languishing in a role at McDonalds, primarily because his all boys so called outstanding state grammar insisted on providing him with teachers that either couldn't manage a class or, in the case of his maths teacher, could barely speak English, because he wasn't top set material so they really weren't bothered. I spent more time on the phone begging and pleading for him to move classes than I care to think about and spent most evenings with said son trying to help him catch up. When I spoke to the teachers themselves, most were away with the fairies and had no idea about what they should be doing. I remember quizzing the Turkish maths teacher about Year 11 intervention strategies and she said 'they' meaning the school 'didn't tell her anything, or maybe they had told her and she needed to listen more.' I wrote it all down verbatim at the time and reported it to the school who then finally moved my son. That woman is still teaching there however.

By the time I realised what was going on he was 2/3 of the way through Year 10 so it was too late to move him to another school. He now has issues surrounding education and I'm honestly not sure what to do with him - it's such a waste as his Year 6 Sats were pretty good. Younger son I oiked out of said school and sent him to the same state comp as I went to, and he's absolutely thrived there. I did pay for some extra maths tuition as he wants to do engineering so a maths failure was not an option and as he had had the same teacher as his brother while at the grammar school, I wanted to repair any damage before his exams.

I could not have done more apart from believed elder son about the state of his education earlier. It's not all about parental attitudes, believe me!

Just a side note. Has anyone noticed how eloquently @BurnoutBee writes? I think this is something to celebrate, and I'm not taking the piss, I mean it. Read her history and then look at her analysis and ways of expression.

Its not just flinging mindless insults around and that is refreshing around here.

GCSE grades are now 1-9 so what era is @BurnoutBee talking about? @HairyCalifornia Are you being patronising? Strange comment. Would you say the same to an investment banker?

These schemes should be based on socio-economic disadvantage only. That would include disadvantaged black and white children.

It's s like the BBC recruiting more women and ethnic minorities. Because they are blind to social class they end up recruiting women and ethnic minorities from private schools. So the makeup of BBC staff becomes even more unrepresentative of the country as a whole.

🥱

They're aimed at underrepresented groups. I always wonder about the beliefs of people who oppose that.

To the other poster: it's ironic not only because you link to an article from the Telegraph, with its ABC1 target audience but you moan about snobs then link an article, the central point of which is that too many of "them" are allowed bursaries and schemes at the supposed expense of the white man.

Also you venerate the far right who pretend that their views are common sense rather than extreme and ultimately authoritarian.

Also I have now finished with this thread because, like any decent person, I wouldn't wipe my feet on Yaxley-Lennon, let alone attempt to get any sense out of his ardent fans. TTFN, enjoy your last words.

Bye 👋 maybe showing some thinking that ventures outside of your comfort zone is advisable. Middle ground analysis is useful on forums.

@TheSnootiestFox

I absolutely won’t remove that idea from my head. I do believe there are a lot of working class families who don’t value education. You don’t need to be Einstein…. or an optician to work that one out. I was also referring to my sons friends who took the piss out of my son for even trying in his GCSEs (and getting some good results).

Your son is middle class. My son is not. This thread is about working class lads on the whole, not achieving. I know a fair few.

I couldn’t really comment on why your son didn’t do very well but I am talking about my own working class lad and his working class peers, of which he has many. So, you will not be invalidating my opinion and telling me to get it out of my head.

I am quite surprised you left it so late with your son to be honest. Having worked in state education for years I’m no fool to the realities which often means cover teachers and supplies. My daughter is heading into year 10 with no consistent maths teacher. I am having to take on extra work so I can afford the £35 a week maths tutor that she will require. It is a HUGE expense for us as a WC family. And yes, I do believe teachers try exceptionally hard to bridge the gap in state schools with working class kids.

If you are middle class as they come (which you’ve stated) I can only presume your son went to a middle class school. Perhaps those teachers were coasting, with more engaged middle class kids. Perhaps my kids teachers have to try a little bit harder to engage? Food for thought.

Tommy Robinson is a racist. He has always been a racist and he will always be a racist. Based on everything he has said in his public life.

There's no 'middle ground' and to pretend there is is disingenuous.

Far right is not far right because liberals say it is. I don't rule out political discussion because it doesn't suit my narrative. I take it you're equally as rigid on the far left stance. One more thing, because you call somebody a racist doesn't make them one. Not working anymore.

@HairyCalifornia

Thank you, that’s kind of you to say. 😊

@MeetMeOnTheCorner

I am 37, I know the grades - but I still say A/B for ease. My son is on track for mainly
6s and 7s. He did get 8s in his English Lit/language mocks.

My daughter is going into year 10. It is very likely she will be passing with 4s, maybe the odd 5. She will need a maths tutor though, as like I’ve previously said, she’s never had a consistent maths teacher. Her school really struggles to recruit and has a very high turnover. High PP numbers.

Gosh @BurnoutBee, would you like some vinegar to go with that working class chip on your shoulder?

Of course my son is middle class and of course he went to a very middle class school, I've stated as much. But I absolutely take exception to you insinuating that all teachers are angels that bust a gut for their kids (some are amazing, some are not!) and that all kids with switched on parents do well like it's all they need. The entire state education system needs a huge overhaul in my opinion, Gove ruined the chances of many children during his time as Secretary of State and there needs to be something in place for less academic students of all social classes.

I left it 'so late,' as you so charmingly put it because I couldn't get the non teaching Heads of Year to listen to me when I expressed my frequent concerns. Another massive but much earlier failure was replacing old fashioned teaching Heads of Year (and I was one pre having my own children) with poorly educated pastoral leaders just to save some cash. The progress of thousands of children up and down the land is relying on the management of people with barely 2 GCSEs to rub together and that really isn't good enough. Again, some are sensational, a lot are not.

I'm delighted that your son is doing well though. It can't have been easy with such a young mum and such a family history, well done him!

@TheSnootiestFox

Firstly, I do not have a WC chip on my shoulder. I’m not sure how you have came to that conclusion. Having opinions about class isn’t the same as being resentful, not sure why you’ve made that leap.

Secondly, yes I’ve worked in schools as a TA, and I stand by the fact I do admire teachers who try very hard to engage WC kids. It doesn’t mean that I think every single one is an angel. Again, that’s another leap you have made. I think they are most certainly up against it, when attitudes regarding education at home are poor. I don’t really make apologies for that rather generic opinion, that many other people also share.

Thirdly, I said that WC kids can do a lot better, if they had adults at home that were more invested in their education. Again, hardly a ground breaking opinion there. You mention that there needs to be an overhaul for all the social classes. Whilst that may be true, my opinions and views have been made in regards to white working class kids, which is what this thread is actually about.

I don’t think anybody would actually disagree with you about the whole system needing an overhaul. We can all certainly agree on that.

You didn’t really appreciate my tone when I said you had left it late with your son, when you had told me I needed to get my opinion “out of my head”, so you haven’t been too charming yourself.

Finally, you state that you’re not really too impressed with non teaching heads of years in your own child’s school, but that’s exactly what my kids have had for years? I’m not really sure what your point is there? I’ve been keeping an eye on my daughters teachers (or lack thereof) for a few years now, hence the maths tutor.

I am acutely aware, the majority of her peers cannot afford a weekly tutor, so whilst your middle class problems are certainly valid, the barriers WC kids face in school are higher, and that is exactly what this thread is about.