White working class children

[NotAnotherScarf]

The bbc has a report about a review of the academic system failing white working class children. The bulk of the population.

It's brilliant that this has been looked at but the recommendations are appalling.

Basically its saying that wcc's are only fit for manual jobs. That schools should push towards offering for vocational courses.

That's where my education went 40 years ago. One child from my year group of 242 went to university at 18. We had at most 6 kids from non white backgrounds. Many went subsequently. I have always maintained the school saw us as shop assistants, factory hands and dockers.

The other recommendations will help children of all races...free travel under 22. Promoting reading etc.

One of the reasons why kids from other backgrounds are doing better has been the push to get them into university...ie black boys being actively recruited and bursarys being given solely to them. Places sponsored etc etc.

Whilst I welcome the move to vocational training. And for many people thats a brilliant move, ts disappointing that the report thinks that that's the main option for wcc's. Basically its says "we don't think your good enough for anything else " .

BBC News - White working-class children 'failed by schools system' - BBC News
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq51j10q601o

@Machinemasoluem

I do. I feel intrinsically WC. I’ll never not be the girl from inserts the name of my notorious council estate in the city that I live in.

Solidly WC, even as a kid on the estate (I’m 37 now). There were differences between me and other kids on the estate. Katriona Sullivan (PhD) who wrote the book “poor” and was from the same area as myself as a kid, said there was “rich poor” and “poor poor” on the estates.

I was rich poor. My mum and dad worked. Mum was a cleaner back then, dad in a factory. We never went hungry. We were always clean. We had bed times and routines.

Other kids on the estate went hungry, their parents were drug addicts, prostitutes. They were dirty. We didn’t play with those kids looking back. We were different so gravitated towards other families who were also solidly WC.

All this back and forth about what class teachers are and how much tradies can make isn’t going to address the topic of the post.

These boys aren’t going to be teachers or tradies. They are on the fringes of society. They won’t commit and stay on courses that will allow them to become qualified in either of those career paths.

We’re talking about boys who probably never attend school, are kicked out of class when they do, have very few positive relationships with any adults, have no positive role models they can relate to, are destined to remain on the fringes of society and then have children who perpetuate that cycle. Don’t forget to add alcohol, drugs and criminality to the mix.

How do we break the cycle?

Removal (at least in term time) from their environments might work? I know people baulk at the idea of borstals but nothing more gentle works. Perhaps a holistic twist on them. Away from home. Introducing new ideas and skills.

@Thedevilhasfinallycaughtupwithhim

I think you are describing the under class. It’s a contested term, but being a white working class boy does not mean you are on the fringes of society. Boys who come from families where substance abuse/addictions are present, where multiple generations haven’t worked are not working class. You are really not describing the working class there, the clue is in the name. Their parents need to be working, not engaged in criminality.

Yes that can be true...(although I think people sometimes exaggerate the case that all tradespeople earn more than all white collar workers, I think that's a bit of a misnomer). But certainly you can make a great living out of it, it's not to be discouraged. But there's more to this than making as much money as you can.

My point is that as a society we need people in governing/strategic/thinking/operational jobs. We need leaders, planners, project managers, doctors and nurses, teachers, social workers, journalists, designers, accountants, actuaries, bankers, technicians, engineers, etc etc. AI will automate some of these but the idea that all of these roles will disappear, leaving us as a nation of plumbers, roofers and glaziers is misleading.

If we're effectively telling an entire demographic of children that none of them should bother trying to attain any of these positions we're not only cutting off their options, we're damaging our country. If we really want our society to reflect everyone within it (including the "white working class"), telling them they don't have a place as decision-makers within that society isn't a great solution.

It’s incredible to see someone with such a perfect balance of arrogance and ignorance.

Who do you think this thread is about?

Boys on Free school meals performing the worst at school.

I wonder if there’s more class consciousness in cities than in towns?
No one around here talks about being middle or working class.
One day when my sons grown up I’ll have to ask him what class he thinks he’s in, I had him at 16 and all his clothes and toys came from charity shops for the first five years. He gets good grades and will hopefully get a good job and probably never think about what class he’s in. That’s how it goes round here anyway.

@BurnoutBee

“It spoke to thousands of young people and their parents as well as hundreds of teachers. Education data about white working class pupils was also analysed as part of the year-long review, looking at the 1.25 million young people in England who are white British and in receipt of free school meals.”

@Thedevilhasfinallycaughtupwithhim

Erm, I have a 16 year old white son myself on free school meals, are you okay? I work by the way. But my income is still under the threshold. What exactly is your point?

Is a packed lunch that expensive?

@Machinemasoluem

No idea but when you do come from a council estate and then you work in middle class sectors, you just can’t fail to see the class system for what it is. There’s no shame for me being WC, it just is what it is. My mum grew up in the care system and did well for herself, perhaps as a family that just makes us more aware about systems.

My point is, you’re not who the thread is about.

The thread is about boys on free school meals being failed by schools, by their home lives and ultimately by themselves and how we can stop that and help them engage is something positive.

Not all boys on free school meals will have these issues but many do, hence the statistics.

@Thedevilhasfinallycaughtupwithhim

Which I have discussed further up the thread. I have children who fit that bracket. I gave some valid points to share, also much further up the thread.

So please do stop calling people arrogant and ignorant. I disagreed with you that all working class boys are on the fringes of society. They are not. Some of those on FSM will be, but certainly, certainly not all. Many people who work, still have children on FSM, particularly if they are a single parent.

You sound very rude, and if I’m honest the completely ignorant and arrogant one ironically.

I’m happy for your mum (I read your other comments earlier).

I think it could be an idea worth exploring an area with a large population like a city with big council estates and other neighbourhoods. I can imagine class consciousness (or whatever you call it) being a lot stronger than in a town. My parents were not rich and lived in a council house too but it was on a road not an estate and I did not even realise it was different to owned houses

The thread is about white working class children, anyone is welcome to share their views, including @BurnoutBee who has a son on FSM.

Apologies @nomas and @BurnoutBee

Please regale us more with your tales of your mum earning £67k a year and your tradie bother who earns more.

It’s exactly who the BBC article is about.

The article is about white boys receiving fsm which she said her son is. It’s worth remembering the eligibility for fsm is earning less than £7.4k a year but once you get them you get them till you leave school. The eligibility is supposed to be extended to all children whose parents receive Universal credit this autumn.

I wonder if this problem will statistically correct itself when that happens

The statistics might change but the problem
won’t.

It is actually one of the major factors. Not the only one, but it contributes significantly to the problem.

The evidence on this has been discussed for years, yet many people especially parents seem unwilling to read about the subject or engage with the research. If They aren't even prepared to that it's difficult to see how we're going to solve it.

@Thedevilhasfinallycaughtupwithhim

Well what is it that you want to know? My mum herself grew up in care, in and out of foster homes. Extreme poverty and surrounded by mental illness/addictions.

She worked as an NHS cleaner, then progressed in the NHS via a nursing bursary (which enabled her to earn a salary whilst studying). I guess the real question for us as a family is, why was she able to succeed? I think this is a complex question that even she herself would probably struggle to answer.

She had a foster family in her earlier years that made her read books and do a lot of work. So I think that was definitely a seed for her love of reading.

As for my brother? He left school at 15 to work as a plasterer. Owns his own business now. Did well. Lots of his WC peers also did the same though.

I can see the statistics changing massively tbh, £7.4k is insanely low and will include a lot of families with problems that make studying hard.

When it includes every family receiving UC these studies will be looking at a far more varied group of people.

But yes you’re right the children who aren’t doing well will still be the same but more statistically hidden

@Machinemasoluem

The threshold for FSM is a lot lower now. It was higher than 7k, I am sure it was around the 14k mark back in 2020. We dipped under the threshold during Covid when my husband was made redundant. He works in a factory but once you’re on the FSM, they don’t remove you.

My original point was that, having worked in schools as a TA, I really think educational staff try really hard to bridge the gap but if parents don’t value education, it’s very hard to engage. I have no idea how they can be improved to be honest, it was just my view that WC kids can succeed if their parents value education.

This forum is strangely condescending about the ‘lower classes’. Odd to be pushing underprivileged young people into ‘trades’. Surely we want people to achieve in jobs suited to their interests and abilities. Don’t see many middle classes on here aiming for their average intelligence sons to become brickies and plumbers. We need schools to work well for all young people and to do this the education system needs a radical overhaul.

I wasn’t judging you, my son also gets FSM I actually was under 7k at one point I’m not now though he still gets them until he leaves primary school.

I just think in September when eligibility goes from less than 7.4k to everyone on universal credit then the statistics around this will massively change. At the moment barely any one is eligible for fsm and it will not just include our children but also the children of disabled parents who’s kids are busy caring for them and don’t have time for homework and kids who’s parents have alcohol issues. Just general stuff that makes studying harder.

When it includes every family on UC it will include millions of regular working families and will water down these bad statistics if you know what I mean.

I think it's an interesting observation that the suggestion is to reopen educational avenues like the vocational schools of the 70s but without the grammar schools to counterbalance them. You do need both and equitable entry into the grammars based on exams.

It's not just this forum, people still slavishly align with the class system. I have no idea why.