White working class children

[NotAnotherScarf]

The bbc has a report about a review of the academic system failing white working class children. The bulk of the population.

It's brilliant that this has been looked at but the recommendations are appalling.

Basically its saying that wcc's are only fit for manual jobs. That schools should push towards offering for vocational courses.

That's where my education went 40 years ago. One child from my year group of 242 went to university at 18. We had at most 6 kids from non white backgrounds. Many went subsequently. I have always maintained the school saw us as shop assistants, factory hands and dockers.

The other recommendations will help children of all races...free travel under 22. Promoting reading etc.

One of the reasons why kids from other backgrounds are doing better has been the push to get them into university...ie black boys being actively recruited and bursarys being given solely to them. Places sponsored etc etc.

Whilst I welcome the move to vocational training. And for many people thats a brilliant move, ts disappointing that the report thinks that that's the main option for wcc's. Basically its says "we don't think your good enough for anything else " .

BBC News - White working-class children 'failed by schools system' - BBC News
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq51j10q601o

No real obligation for you to engage with me is there, except your stream of bile evidently keeps you happy.

Not according to the law. When both the Equality Act and racially aggravated legislation preclude white as a protected characteristic, calling somebody a white cunt IS racist. Sociology doesn't supersede the law. No wonder so many know it all college and uni kids think it's acceptable to stop Jews from going to classes. There's a very skewed idea of racism.

Sorry, I meant DON'T preclude

Course it can. If you aren't disabled or have health issues, education, hard work and determination takes you places.

I certainly knew from very young about university. It came up in conversations while I was at nursery school - I knew that primary school was next then secondary school then university after that, seemingly as a matter of course. My father of course was determined we all had the chance to go and explained that hard work was necessary to achieve that.

For many families, it is a given production line almost. In fact on a recent holiday when attending the Chinese supermarket in a Spanish town,I observed (as I’ve done elsewhere) the small children of the owner ( of Chinese origin) doing schoolwork on computer in the school holidays. She was telling them to ‘work hard so you can get to university.’

Improving transport links would help.
We need someone with experience of making buses affordable in charge...

As would improving opportunities.close to where they are

So if you don't have any structural, often insurmountable barriers to success, you can succeed? What if you do?

I don’t think it is acceptable to stop Jews from going to classes - they have been systematically oppressed.
I was saying that it is not to do with colour per se.
Of course, if the law says otherwise then so be it. I am not in the habit of judging people based on their skin, race, religion etc so haven’t looked into the nuances of what is racism versus prejudice. I know what it feels like to be judged or assumptions made about how I look etc.

Start with with racially Aggravated offences. Crime and Disorder Act 1998. The term harassment, alarm and distress should ring a bell.

Theres been a shift in where the black british boys have their heritage. Stats are still poor for caribbean, but are offset by stronger results from an increasing proportion of children from african heritage.

There did also used to be more racism impacting black boys.

when the go to university, black boys do decidedly worse than everyone else

• sorry if I'm being dense, can I just clarify : so black boys overall do better at school than white wc boys but worse at university? Why this difference?

What effect does class and heritage have on this? My impression was that African immigrant boys overall may be doing better than Caribbean heritage boys though this could be wrong.

Why are they poor from the Carribean?

@Machinemasoluem Did your parents / wider family / school never discuss jobs with you as a child or how you would earn a living in the future? Seems strange to me that no one said eg ‘ if you want to be a doctor, that’s great - you’ll need to work very hard at school, pass lots of exams very well and go to university’ or ‘yes, you could be a hairdresser but you need to work hard at school for now and then do a course teaching you how to cut hair and in the meantime, give me these scissors …!’

This.

Also, where they moved to matters.
People tend to move to the big city (London) or where there's jobs. They are already leaving behind their homes so no roots to stock to. People in deprived, mostly white towns, likely have roots there and don't always want to move away from parents, support networks etc. they might well have caring responsibilities etc. So quite reasonably they are less mobile. And more likely to get trapped. But "everyone move to London" isn't a solution. So improving opportunities elsewhere would help.

But it needs unpacking as to why that specific group seem to lack in motivation and Its far to simplistic to say well there’s less white boys on uni prospectuses. Well there are white boys on it, so they are being represented.

there is something more but it seems we’ll just keep making excuses for mediocrity

Yes, if the report was talking about families in long term unemployment, then they definitely need help but are arguably a different group from 'working class' if they aren't working.

This!

Not quite. White working class people, not just boys, have always been at the bottom of the heap when compared to other white people. Hence all the very early Trades Union initiative to improve working class educational standards with libraries, trade schools, working mens educational institutes etc ( mostly for men of course). Many were remarkable successful in promoting and fostering the education ,and therefore the employment chances, of white working class men, and some women. As the UK developed into a multicultural society with significant numbers of non white children in UK schools,it became apparent that for many it was assumed that there was now a new underclass, ie people who were not white, even though it often turned out, many of the non white adult population had advanced skills and education. The fact that this new “underclass” is now consistently outperforming white working class pupils is a fairly recent phenomenon, though for some racial groups it has been well known, and ignored, for many decades. Steady improvement in non white attainment is down to many factors, better teaching is one, higher teacher expectations, less racism in classrooms and in teaching materials, supportive and ambitious parents are others.

It might be about curriculum demands or teacher prejudice and poor expectations but I suspect the current phenomena of poor white childrens achievement, has many roots actually outside the educational system and that resolving it will be long and painful.

Class. It's a class thing.

It's arguable more recent migrants have more class mobility because it's not always clear where to place them. And likely are coming from a middle class background with the social capital that results.from that. This benefits the second, third generations.

But we are still a very classy dominated country. The underperformance/lack of opportunities for working class boys reflects that. Plus the areas they are in. I don't think WWC boys in London suffer the same ill effects. If course pupils in London receive more funding per head than elsewhere I think

Yes- one thing is that Chinese immigrants may have originally been from middle class backgrounds, but another is that in China the link between class and stuff like university is a bit less strong for various reasons.

Yuan Yang's book Private Revolutions is very good, about 4 women growing up in the post-1980s opening of China. There's a lot of focus on the continuing oppressiveness of the government, but one woman comments that one positive difference is that families in her village aspired to university, whereas in the UK it struck her as associated more with mc people.

This too.

So many white working class families simply don’t value education. It is exceptionally hard for the school and teachers to mitigate this attitude that comes from the home.

• why is this?

ie black boys being actively recruited and bursarys being given solely to them. Places sponsored etc etc.

• I agree white wc kids need stuff like this too.

However, Stormzy & others offering uni scholarships in a sense seems a bit of a red herring as to the attainment difference.

Uni help etc will only help black boys who are already achieving high at school, motivated etc

If there's an attainment gap with black boys doing better, it can't be mainly down to uni scholarships, the difference must be coming earlier down the line, at school presumably. Why?

Moving to this country has given us and our DC a myriad of opportunities. Dh earns very well (his boss is also Indian). All my dc are well educated in top unis and have achieved great careers.

Why don’t these white boys see there’s more to be gained from education than lost by it though? I disliked being poor - intensely. I was determined to get a good job. Why don’t these boys see there’s better available? Dc in London cannot help but notice well off people, but do other dc live in a bubble? Not look around beyond their own neighbourhood? Or are they persuaded doing well is “not for the likes of us” and decide bothering means crossing a line? I’m not sure but what exactly holds them back other than culture?