Please tell me its OK to refer to someone as being "as black as the ace of spades".

[lucyellensmum]

Its not is it? Even if i was referring to my mother. Oh, i am so mortified.

Today i was chatting to someone about my mum who has a medical condition that means she has very dark skin. I said in the context of the conversation, when someone asked me if she was really that dark, "oh yes, she is as black as the ace of spades". Not thinking that there was a black girl in the car with us who i have only just met . I immediately realised what i had said and apologised straight away, trying to wriggle out of it by saying well she really is dark, darker tha you!! Not sure that would have helped. The young lass didnt seem offended at all and was happy and friendly with me for the rest of the day.

LEM kicks herself repeatedly up the backside. What a stupid thing to say I just hope she wasn't offended or upset by it.

I dont think its a racist thing to say, my DP disagreed though. I certainly didnt mean it in that way and am personally deeply offended by racist words and phrases.

I can tell a story that will make anyone who has ever worried they have been an accidental racist feel much, much better.

some years ago, when DS1 was about sixteen months, and proud of knowing his animal noises, as they are, he saw a very dark skinned black woman.

And made his monkey noise. With underarm scatchy motions.

Really, I should carry suicide tablets for moments like that.

agree with policywonk - although if I was the person sitting behind you I would wonder if you were a closet racist or just tackless.

what baout if there was a room of white poepel and one balck person
youd refer to him ad the black guy there woudlnt you
adn i am sur ehte same in reverse
or a redhead.

Is the saying "call a spade a spade" offensive?? I have always been very wary of using this phrase

A very outdated and offensive term in my opinion.
I wouldn't use it for fear of sounding racist

You were not saying this to the girl, you were talking about your mother who isn't black...I can't see how this could be deemed racist. I'm sure she didn't take offence

It's a bit rude and ignorant but not racist, I think. And you apoligosed. You won;t do it again - great!

mmJ my spelling is always poor on mn - The English Language and Literature A Level is many many soiled nappies ago

If its any consolation LEM - a mixed race friend of mine who teaches drama - once announced to her class (the majority of which were black) that she had a 'wog' box with her if anyone wanted to use music. She hadn't realised that the term derrived from 'golly wog box' (In the 80's - black kids in america carrying music boxes on their shoulders) the kids soon filled her in! So it could have been a lot worse! And as everybody here as said - I'm sure you won't do it again!

The 'Spade a spade' thing has turned to a racist sounding comment rather than always being one. It used to mean that you always say things as they are, so you call a spade a spade. The racist connotation has come form the association with the Ace of Spades meaning black therefore inferring that a Spade is someone who is black. All very PC nonsense obviously. It's the same principle as feeling sorry for yourself if youve said blackboard in a classroom.

If you referred to something black as black then you are not a racist, in any way shape or form, just a media victim. If you refererred to a black person as black as the ace of spades you would be offensive, and technically quite wrong. Don't let the PC brigade (mostly white (sic) people anyway) make you feel bad so that you are paying for their guilt feelings over their unchangeable cultural heritage.

Ho hum. I hear this sort of language every now and again - but usually only from my mum's friends, who are in their 80's!

One said of my daughter 'There's definitely a touch of the tar brush there, but she's very pretty'. Another friend would rock my daughter on her lap, singing 'Time for all the little picaninnies to goooooo tooooooo sleeeeeep'. But I didn't take issue because she had alzheimers!

But to the OP - erk. You should instantly expunge that phrase from your vocabulary. It's naff in a very Jim Davidson sort of way.

LOl. That would stop someone wouldn't it. "You're a Jim Davidson". Nobody would say anything racist again. "I'm sorry sir, but we don't tolerate any Bernard Mannings in here". I'm tickled by that. Thanks Sabire

Apprehension about using such phrases as 'call a spade a spade' isn't 'PC nonsense', it's a misinterpretation of PC principles. Don't blame PCers for other people's misunderstandings. Similarly, I don't know anyone who would think it was racist to call a black person black, so long as it was a simple statement of fact.

PC is just another term for good manners.

I agree PW, but have been accused of being a tad naive polically, which I have investigated and found to be true - in the sense that PC polical agenda's (as distinguished from the basic good manners description) are far from helpful and sometimes downright totalitarian.

How are your trees coming along?

depends on the context.

Yes. Which one?

uuuuhhhggggggggghhhhhhhhh - shuddering as being even slightly jim davidson esque.

That phrase is often used in NI to refer to protestants... Or Black as your boot.. not in reference to colour of skin though