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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to object to neighbour using my garden as their main access?

373 replies

Deepblueokay · Yesterday 18:51

Fully expecting to be told this is my own fault for not looking into it properly but need a vent all the same!

A year ago I moved into an end of terrace house. There is the usual easement arrangement with the adjoining neighbour that they can get access to their back garden via my back garden. I know that is pretty standard and I was obviously aware of it when I purchased. Since moving in however it's become clear that they use it as their primary entrance. They never use their front door. They have a sign on the front door telling post man/ couriers etc to go round the back. Again, wouldn't necessarily be a big issue except that there seems to CONSTANTLY be someone walking through! It's an older lady living there with her grandson. He is late teens/ early 20s maybe and in and out like a yo-yo, no exaggeration. Ditto her boyfriend, her dog walker, her cleaner, her food shop, couriers (she gets at least two packages a day!) .... The latter particularly pisses me off because they often don't close my gate behind them. I have an OAP dog and 4 children, the youngest of whom is 4. It'd take literal seconds to slip out of the garden without anyone noticing 😠 And frankly, now that its summer time it just feels quite intrusive. Strangers walking in and out while my children are playing. I stupidly feel awkward sitting outside to read a book even though it's my fucking garden!

Is it even a legal thing to say that they are over using their access?!

Should also add that I would probably mind all this less except that at the end of last year the handle of my gate broke. It was the week before Christmas and I didn't have time or money to fix it and it wasn't particularly a priority for me, but I told the neighbour I would sort it after Christmas, quite reasonably I thought. (I have a side door so actually rarely use the gate). Neighbour told me I had to fix it because it is "YOUR gate" and "a public right of way" (it isn't 🤣).Then proceeded to tell all the other neighbours that I was "refusing" to fix it because I didn't use it and that she "couldn't even get her food delivered" and would "rather die than use the front door"... After a week of hassle and harassment I ended up getting a friend's husband to fix it for free and neighbour has since apologised but... I don't know, it just left a sour taste.

Is there anything I can do? Do I just have to wait for her to move/die?? 🙈

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
notanotherfootballmatch · Today 20:32

Nothungrycat · Today 20:22

If you can't lay your hands on your own paperwork, do look at the Land Registry, where you can pay to get a copy of the title deeds information for your property and also for your neighbour's (you don't have to own the property to get a copy of the deeds). It will cost you about £25.00 per property plus more to buy the plans for each property, but it would be very useful.

Please make sure you use the gov.uk website, copies of the register are £7.

https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land/copies-of-deeds

Get information about property and land

How to search for information about property and land in England and Wales - find out who owns it, how much was paid for it, how to get a scanned copy of the deeds and how to check the property boundaries

https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land/copies-of-deeds

Gonners · Today 20:37

So, if she would "rather die than use the front door" then I'd be encouraging that option! Seriously, though, what is her problem with using her own front door?

Nothungrycat · Today 20:40

notanotherfootballmatch · Today 20:32

Please make sure you use the gov.uk website, copies of the register are £7.

https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land/copies-of-deeds

Apologies - you're entirely right - that'll teach me to google in a hurry!!

CotswoldIdyll · Today 20:49

There is a lot of incorrect advice being given here which could cause legal problems. I agree that the garden law forum is excellent for this sort of thing. When you have an easement across your property it is for the benefit of the property which has the right of way and you have no say over how much they use it. They and their visitors can walk up and down it all day if they like, provided they stick to the terms, e.g. if it’s pedestrian and pushing a bike or wheelbarrow, they can’t bring a motorcycle along it and they can’t loiter or deviate from the route onto the rest of your garden. You have allow free access so gates are tricky. Our neighbours just used it for the bins, but when they built an extension they did assume they had more access than they actually had. Our side entrance was much wider than the nominal footpath width they had access over, so we did have to remind them that they weren’t free to bring digging machinery through even though it would technically fit. It wasn’t a happy time, but ultimately the outcome was excellent as they didn’t ascertain beforehand that they had no right whatsoever to extend the route so they actually extinguished their own right of way by blocking it off with their extension.

VisitingSanta · Today 20:51

OP, am I right in thinking you're end of terrace?
First step to check the deeds, but it doesn't seem like she'll be reasonable.
Is the fence/gate to her garden hers? I'd be tempted to move your gate to the end of your garden and essentially cut that bit off so it's like an alleyway to her garden, with her gate also at the back of her garden.
Easier said than done, and also more of a long term plan if she's not reasonable.
If you can section it off in this way you'll probably find the house easier to sell if you ever do need to sell it.

godmum56 · Today 20:51

VisitingSanta · Today 20:51

OP, am I right in thinking you're end of terrace?
First step to check the deeds, but it doesn't seem like she'll be reasonable.
Is the fence/gate to her garden hers? I'd be tempted to move your gate to the end of your garden and essentially cut that bit off so it's like an alleyway to her garden, with her gate also at the back of her garden.
Easier said than done, and also more of a long term plan if she's not reasonable.
If you can section it off in this way you'll probably find the house easier to sell if you ever do need to sell it.

it depends what is says in the deeds

IckyIck · Today 20:53

@CotswoldIdyll , my NDN built an extension over the easement in their garden. That's how I know about easements. It came up in the conveyancing. They'd lost their right.

VisitingSanta · Today 20:59

It's mad to me, not that this is a thing - totally get it, but that anyone actually uses it for anything other than an emergency or in a case of no other option.
I'd rather drag my bins through the house each week than drag them underneath someone else's kitchen window 😆
I've lived in houses where the only access to the garden is through the house, and it can sometimes be inconvenient, but you just live with it.

ImAMinion · Today 21:11

certainly not a legal expert so I’m happy to be corrected:

OP on your map, you said you were the red box - to the left side, is that a path? If so, does it go all the way to the top of your garden?

If yes, as another poster has said, can you (and I know this will cost money) rejiggle the gate and fence, so put the gate at the top and create an alleyway - I realise she will probably be stubborn about it but if you then paid for the gate at the top on her side, she wouldn’t loose access but you would get your privacy, you essentially create a path at the top of the garden.

The terraces down my road have done that - they all agreed to chop the top meter of their gardens, put up the fences with gates and then they’ve all got back access without losing any garden privacy. No one who has moved in has complained of the arrangement.

Whose responsibility is the fence on the right of your garden, ie the shared one? If it’s yours, this could work.

GlobalTravellerbutespeciallyBognor · Today 21:11

BigBilly · Today 18:39

The wording of an easement is rarely as restrictive for the user as you are suggesting. Of course if such wording exists then by all means erecting a fence one inch over that prescribed area would be allowable. More often it'll be something alon the lines of "the area marked brown on the plan is for the use of the dominant tenement and their guests at all times for all purposes without let or hindrance" basically meaning for whatever they want, whenever they want and you cannot stop them. I was hoping for something definitive written down in the deeds there wasn't, but after the court case it is now worded much more clearly for the all future custodians of that property. A very expensive lesson was learnt!

Horrendous. Poor you. Very stressful

vickylou78 · Today 21:11

BigBilly · Yesterday 19:40

I moved into an end terrace house with exactly this scenario. Unbeknownst to me all neighbours were exercising their right to the easement on a very regular basis. We locked the adjoining gate as we had dogs that were regularly being let out onto the road. This felt like a safety issue. Long story short, the neighbour employed a solicitor, ran up huge bills, I could only defend myself in the week long court case and ended up in circa 100k of debt as a result. If I could have stopped this in advance of the legal action and put the for sale board up I would have done. If this situation is untenable for you, then I would leave. Although do this before any argument ensues or you will have to declare a neighbour dispute when the conveyancing solicitor do their paperwork . Good luck and please feel free to ask me anything, I know an annoying amount about easements. 😆

We have similar easement here and our deeds do allow the occupants plus whoever they allow to cross into their garden. It is very strange to get used to people walking through. Your garden doesn't quite feel your own. We have just had to accept it as don't think we could fight it in court as deed is so vague.

I'd move if you don't like it as would be risk to start a neighbour dispute as you have to declare it when you sell.

Deepblueokay · Today 21:18

I am tempted to just screen off the walkway with plants/trellis but am reluctant to have a fenced off walk way because it would mean losing some garden space. And as someone else (sorry lost your post now) suggested, I highly suspect she would take it as carte blanche to do whatever the fuck she wanted if I did.

A previous owner has apparently tried to move her access to the other end of the garden but she "wasn't keen on that idea" 😩

If the deeds aren't useful, I am tempted by some manner of PITA lock to deter...

OP posts:
lightreflectingonwater · Today 21:19

ImAMinion · Today 21:11

certainly not a legal expert so I’m happy to be corrected:

OP on your map, you said you were the red box - to the left side, is that a path? If so, does it go all the way to the top of your garden?

If yes, as another poster has said, can you (and I know this will cost money) rejiggle the gate and fence, so put the gate at the top and create an alleyway - I realise she will probably be stubborn about it but if you then paid for the gate at the top on her side, she wouldn’t loose access but you would get your privacy, you essentially create a path at the top of the garden.

The terraces down my road have done that - they all agreed to chop the top meter of their gardens, put up the fences with gates and then they’ve all got back access without losing any garden privacy. No one who has moved in has complained of the arrangement.

Whose responsibility is the fence on the right of your garden, ie the shared one? If it’s yours, this could work.

Op can't move the route to make it less convenient without the agreement of everyone who has the right to use it (and this would almost certainly come at a cost)

GlobalTravellerbutespeciallyBognor · Today 21:23

I presume the NDN owns her house?
How old is she? People used to keep their front parlour, as they called it, nice by always using the back door.

PinkPonyAnonymous · Today 21:24

Deepblueokay · Today 13:59

Sigh

I really don't want to remove or extinguish or otherwise interfere with her access. I just feel that it is being used in a way which is beyond reasonable. This is not my first rodeo, I have lived in plenty of terraced houses and I understand the purpose of the easement, but I have never known anyone else use it in this manner!

Yeah YANBU. Plenty of these easements exist and are not taken advantage of in this way!

Without sounds horrid, how much longer do you think she has? Could you wait it out?

Do you know why she hates the front door? Very odd. Even if she still entered via the back, could everyone else not use the front? Could a lock on the gate that she has a single key to be helpful? Or even a keypad?

FairyBatman · Today 21:28

The text that @Deepblueokay posted mentions a shaded area in Green, do you have that map? If not you might be able to get it from the land registry for a few pounds. It’s probably worth getting the deeds anyway to see the exact wording.

Metromayhem · Today 21:29

Deepblueokay · Today 21:18

I am tempted to just screen off the walkway with plants/trellis but am reluctant to have a fenced off walk way because it would mean losing some garden space. And as someone else (sorry lost your post now) suggested, I highly suspect she would take it as carte blanche to do whatever the fuck she wanted if I did.

A previous owner has apparently tried to move her access to the other end of the garden but she "wasn't keen on that idea" 😩

If the deeds aren't useful, I am tempted by some manner of PITA lock to deter...

This is a good idea. Don’t stop her access but make it as fucking difficult as possible. A padlock with a kay so she has to walk down and physically unlock it every single time. She sounds like a horrible rude entitled old bag. Sorry you’re having to put up with this 🙁

HollyHolly123 · Today 21:33

So do you have to leave the gate open all the time even when you’re at work? At night? When the older kids will be home alone ? Could you lock it , give her one non copiable key and tell her she has to lock it when she comes and goes for your house security. If she doesn’t lock it you go out and lock it.It will mean she has to be in and out letting people in. Which will be a pain and she might start opening he front door instead?

VisitingSanta · Today 21:35

Deepblueokay · Today 21:18

I am tempted to just screen off the walkway with plants/trellis but am reluctant to have a fenced off walk way because it would mean losing some garden space. And as someone else (sorry lost your post now) suggested, I highly suspect she would take it as carte blanche to do whatever the fuck she wanted if I did.

A previous owner has apparently tried to move her access to the other end of the garden but she "wasn't keen on that idea" 😩

If the deeds aren't useful, I am tempted by some manner of PITA lock to deter...

Yes, provide her with a key and she'll have to open her front door to hand it to delivery drivers 😆

HollyHolly123 · Today 21:44

CotswoldIdyll · Today 20:49

There is a lot of incorrect advice being given here which could cause legal problems. I agree that the garden law forum is excellent for this sort of thing. When you have an easement across your property it is for the benefit of the property which has the right of way and you have no say over how much they use it. They and their visitors can walk up and down it all day if they like, provided they stick to the terms, e.g. if it’s pedestrian and pushing a bike or wheelbarrow, they can’t bring a motorcycle along it and they can’t loiter or deviate from the route onto the rest of your garden. You have allow free access so gates are tricky. Our neighbours just used it for the bins, but when they built an extension they did assume they had more access than they actually had. Our side entrance was much wider than the nominal footpath width they had access over, so we did have to remind them that they weren’t free to bring digging machinery through even though it would technically fit. It wasn’t a happy time, but ultimately the outcome was excellent as they didn’t ascertain beforehand that they had no right whatsoever to extend the route so they actually extinguished their own right of way by blocking it off with their extension.

Gosh who knew this was even possible. So putting a lock on the gate isn’t a good idea it seems!

TheOccupier · Today 21:44

saraclara · Yesterday 19:34

Lots of people are saying this, but legally you cannot lock a gate in an easement.

Could OP put a lock on the gate and give her neighbour a key? That way she could use it but her visitors and delivery people couldn't.

MsAmerica · Today 21:54

First, write her a nice note, saying that the current traffic is unacceptable (use a nicer word) and she has to stop all these extraneous people.
Second, put a sign on wherever it is - and have a professional sign made, so it looks more formal - saying: Private property: Residents only.
That way you make it clear that you're fine with her, as a resident, but not all the other random people.

notanotherfootballmatch · Today 21:59

Nothungrycat · Today 20:40

Apologies - you're entirely right - that'll teach me to google in a hurry!!

I hate those sites that get people to pay more for free or cheap government services. Often they don't add any actual value for the extra money.

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