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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to object to neighbour using my garden as their main access?

346 replies

Deepblueokay · Yesterday 18:51

Fully expecting to be told this is my own fault for not looking into it properly but need a vent all the same!

A year ago I moved into an end of terrace house. There is the usual easement arrangement with the adjoining neighbour that they can get access to their back garden via my back garden. I know that is pretty standard and I was obviously aware of it when I purchased. Since moving in however it's become clear that they use it as their primary entrance. They never use their front door. They have a sign on the front door telling post man/ couriers etc to go round the back. Again, wouldn't necessarily be a big issue except that there seems to CONSTANTLY be someone walking through! It's an older lady living there with her grandson. He is late teens/ early 20s maybe and in and out like a yo-yo, no exaggeration. Ditto her boyfriend, her dog walker, her cleaner, her food shop, couriers (she gets at least two packages a day!) .... The latter particularly pisses me off because they often don't close my gate behind them. I have an OAP dog and 4 children, the youngest of whom is 4. It'd take literal seconds to slip out of the garden without anyone noticing 😠 And frankly, now that its summer time it just feels quite intrusive. Strangers walking in and out while my children are playing. I stupidly feel awkward sitting outside to read a book even though it's my fucking garden!

Is it even a legal thing to say that they are over using their access?!

Should also add that I would probably mind all this less except that at the end of last year the handle of my gate broke. It was the week before Christmas and I didn't have time or money to fix it and it wasn't particularly a priority for me, but I told the neighbour I would sort it after Christmas, quite reasonably I thought. (I have a side door so actually rarely use the gate). Neighbour told me I had to fix it because it is "YOUR gate" and "a public right of way" (it isn't 🤣).Then proceeded to tell all the other neighbours that I was "refusing" to fix it because I didn't use it and that she "couldn't even get her food delivered" and would "rather die than use the front door"... After a week of hassle and harassment I ended up getting a friend's husband to fix it for free and neighbour has since apologised but... I don't know, it just left a sour taste.

Is there anything I can do? Do I just have to wait for her to move/die?? 🙈

OP posts:
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GlobalTravellerbutespeciallyBognor · Today 17:51

lightreflectingonwater · Today 14:41

Exactly

And it's not just about what the deeds say

If this lady has been using it more extensively than the deeds allowed for 20 years then she has acquired a prescriptive easement for the more extensive use.

People can be annoyed and think it rotten for op this has been settled law for a very long time

Thanks for raising this.
I was wondering if there were a parallel with adverse possession if the neighbour had been doing this for quite some time.
Unfortunately from what you say,
an extra easement might have developed?

GlobalTravellerbutespeciallyBognor · Today 17:53

The prescriptive easement for the more extensive use leaves any new purchasers quite exposed though, doesn’t it- how can they be expected to know what the annoying neighbour is in the habit of doing? Or does the twenty year period restart with every new P? Or does the new P get a representation from the outgoing owner as to the extent of the usage?

lightreflectingonwater · Today 17:53

GlobalTravellerbutespeciallyBognor · Today 17:51

Thanks for raising this.
I was wondering if there were a parallel with adverse possession if the neighbour had been doing this for quite some time.
Unfortunately from what you say,
an extra easement might have developed?

Yes exactly that, a more extensive/intensive easement essentially

GlobalTravellerbutespeciallyBognor · Today 17:55

lightreflectingonwater · Today 17:53

Yes exactly that, a more extensive/intensive easement essentially

Thanks. I’m wondering about how a new P can protect him or herself. I put some suggestions (above your post) but I think you were replying at the precise moment that I replied to you.

Brahumbug · Today 18:00

As per usual, there is a lot of incorrect nonsense being posted. Have you checked the wording on your neighbours deeds as well? The exact wording of the easement will tell us the rights of the dominant hereditament.

Noce · Today 18:03

This is ridiculous.
We had a house with the same set up: the only time we ever passed through the neighbours garden was to empty bins. And all the other neighbours did us the same courtesy

FudgeFudy · Today 18:05

BigBilly · Today 17:30

I get what fudge fudy is suggesting, I'm suggesting that it is probably still not allowable by law unless agreed by both parties and drawn up officially with land registry. I have been in exactly this situation and there was no wiggle room whichever way I tried to wiggle it was a complete nightmare

I'm honestly amazed at that. If in the OP's case the easement says (for example) that the neighbour may use the first six feet from her back wall as a means of access to their property, then it's a pretty fundamental tenet of English land law that the OP can do what she likes six feet and one inch from her back wall, including putting up a fence. If that's awkward for the neighbours or any visitors they may invite onto their property then that's just tough. The only reason I can think that the OP wouldn't be able to do it is if there was also a restrictive covenant saying that she couldn't, but that would be really odd. I'm genuinely interested as to the reason you weren't allowed to put up a fence on your own land that wasn't the subject of an easement...it's so strange!

Khayker · Today 18:15

Deepblueokay · Yesterday 19:39

It just very much seems to be a "I've lived here 40 years and I've never used my front door!" thing. That and I think she just expected me to take her BS "public right of way" thing as gospel 🙄

Check on your deeds what type of easement it is. I very much doubt it's for all and sundry to use for delivery and anything else rather than a front door. If it's a utilities easement it's just for that and any right of way easement allows access from/to a road. You have a right to privacy and family life under the Human Rights Act android children have the right to be safe on your property. I suggest see a solicitor if you can afford it and have them draft a letter to your neighbours or contact Citizens Advice.

76evie · Today 18:15

GoneWithTheWind4 · Today 14:07

Can you put a fence / hedge across your garden so their “walkway” doesn’t go through that area? That way you gain some privacy and can fence the kids / dog in. And come to view the walkway as just that?

She is taking the piss. Can you not do as this poster has suggested? You shouldn’t have to as most normal people would at most use it once a week to take the bins out but she doesn’t sound normal.

I’d look to lock the top gate and get a gate put at the bottom and fence off a walkway no wider that the gate across the bottom of the garden, that would be wide enough to drag a bin across and that can be her access.

Might cost you a bit but be worth it to have a private garden.

IckyIck · Today 18:16

@FudgeFudy , me too. My deeds say the NDN only has access to the path marked.

Here's George Clarke and the wall with the window.

LouiseK93 · Today 18:22

See this is what I thought access was for and only for. Its the same for my nans.

Northernladdette · Today 18:26

My BiL had this with his end terrace, though I’m not sure the traffic was as heavy as what you’re coping with. He spoke to the neighbours and pushed the fences forward so they went straight into their garden rather than through his. It worked a lot better and no problems when he sold the house.

FourSevenFour · Today 18:27

Would it be legal to lock the gate and give her a key?

Or I really liked the keypad option previous poster mentioned

readingmakesmehappy · Today 18:31

I still can’t get over her refusing to use her own front door, which surely is a faster and easier way to get into her house!

Northernladdette · Today 18:34

Just seen the map, I assumed the neighbour was the other end of the terrace next to the alley.
I assume you’re in the north, I know a lot of houses were built and had access for coal deliveries, now in recent years for bins. They’re taking the piss 😡

Shesellsseashellsx · Today 18:36

Ok, so she has to have access because of the easement but that doesn’t have to be right at the front of the garden.
It may cost a bit, but how about moving the gates to the end of your garden and sectioning off a strip for them to walk through.
That way they still have access, but it’s a bit more inconvenient for them so they may decide the front door is easier.

Marieb19 · Today 18:38

It would be good to know the exact wording on the deeds and does it also apply to the other houses in the road? You could offer to build a dedicated path at the bottom of your garden and even fence it off but would she be amenable. Citizens Advice may be able to help or you coukd try mediation but she would have to be willing to take part.

BigBilly · Today 18:39

FudgeFudy · Today 18:05

I'm honestly amazed at that. If in the OP's case the easement says (for example) that the neighbour may use the first six feet from her back wall as a means of access to their property, then it's a pretty fundamental tenet of English land law that the OP can do what she likes six feet and one inch from her back wall, including putting up a fence. If that's awkward for the neighbours or any visitors they may invite onto their property then that's just tough. The only reason I can think that the OP wouldn't be able to do it is if there was also a restrictive covenant saying that she couldn't, but that would be really odd. I'm genuinely interested as to the reason you weren't allowed to put up a fence on your own land that wasn't the subject of an easement...it's so strange!

The wording of an easement is rarely as restrictive for the user as you are suggesting. Of course if such wording exists then by all means erecting a fence one inch over that prescribed area would be allowable. More often it'll be something alon the lines of "the area marked brown on the plan is for the use of the dominant tenement and their guests at all times for all purposes without let or hindrance" basically meaning for whatever they want, whenever they want and you cannot stop them. I was hoping for something definitive written down in the deeds there wasn't, but after the court case it is now worded much more clearly for the all future custodians of that property. A very expensive lesson was learnt!

godmum56 · Today 18:39

FudgeFudy · Today 18:05

I'm honestly amazed at that. If in the OP's case the easement says (for example) that the neighbour may use the first six feet from her back wall as a means of access to their property, then it's a pretty fundamental tenet of English land law that the OP can do what she likes six feet and one inch from her back wall, including putting up a fence. If that's awkward for the neighbours or any visitors they may invite onto their property then that's just tough. The only reason I can think that the OP wouldn't be able to do it is if there was also a restrictive covenant saying that she couldn't, but that would be really odd. I'm genuinely interested as to the reason you weren't allowed to put up a fence on your own land that wasn't the subject of an easement...it's so strange!

as you have identified, it depends what the easement details are on the deeds. Some will be like my Father in Law's where the actual line of the easement is marked on the documents. Some will be less prescriptive and just state that access to x is allowed over neighbours land.

IckyIck · Today 18:42

@Shesellsseashellsx , the easement will be on the deeds and the deeds will almost certainly say that NDN can only use the marked path.

It probably affects NDN+1 and NDN+2 ... as well so you can't just move the path. All parties would need to agree to use the new one instead of the existing one, and it would affect the deeds of OP, NDN, NDN+1 etc.

Blondeshavemorefun · Today 18:43

I thought usually it’s allowed to be used for bins but nothing else

def not sending people round that way.

use her front door

but a reason why I would never buy a terraced house unless possible in the middle so go through a neighbours garden but they can’t go in mine

AD1509 · Today 18:50

I’m another one in a northern city and all our terraces are like this. Nobody uses the front door as they often open into the living room. Everyone knows you knock on the back- even the boxes are on the back door.

FudgeFudy · Today 18:52

BigBilly · Today 18:39

The wording of an easement is rarely as restrictive for the user as you are suggesting. Of course if such wording exists then by all means erecting a fence one inch over that prescribed area would be allowable. More often it'll be something alon the lines of "the area marked brown on the plan is for the use of the dominant tenement and their guests at all times for all purposes without let or hindrance" basically meaning for whatever they want, whenever they want and you cannot stop them. I was hoping for something definitive written down in the deeds there wasn't, but after the court case it is now worded much more clearly for the all future custodians of that property. A very expensive lesson was learnt!

Right OK, but here we are dealing with an easement for access. And yes usually the area burdened is going to be marked on a plan as opposed to being specified as the first six feet or whatever, but there is still a defined area that has an identifiable border to it. If the easement was for the people that had the benefit of it to do anything they wanted on that land - have a barbecue, put up a deckchair and admire the view etc - then I can see why sticking a fence up might interfere with that right. But if the right is purely to pass over the land to get to another property, I can't see how putting a fence alongside the burdened land is going to interfere with that right.

ThunderFog · Today 18:53

OP, it sounds like your house is great, and you made a good decision. This situation with the path is a teething problem that you will figure out. People on here are expressing themselves harshly and it's not helpful. You and your kids need to feel settled.
The ideal result would be for no 45 to use their front door for everything except stuff that really can only go round the back.

You need to talk this through with someone there in your kitchen/garden, not grumpy people on the internet who don't know the reality.

These things are usually sorted out softly - invoking laws makes people think in an inhumane way, for some reason.
There are loads of those easements that have quietly been stopped up or moved back without aggro or legals. That said,
It might be possible and helpful to have a chat with your conveyancing solicitor, as it's literally their job to spot stuff like this and draw your attention to the full implications.
What is the reciprocal thing with no 45?

momtoboys · Today 18:58

Will you be scared to deal with her if you get the deed and prove she is taking the piss? There is no sense in going through work to get the information if you won't confront her and try to come to a compromise. I agree it would be very intrusive.