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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to object to neighbour using my garden as their main access?

358 replies

Deepblueokay · Yesterday 18:51

Fully expecting to be told this is my own fault for not looking into it properly but need a vent all the same!

A year ago I moved into an end of terrace house. There is the usual easement arrangement with the adjoining neighbour that they can get access to their back garden via my back garden. I know that is pretty standard and I was obviously aware of it when I purchased. Since moving in however it's become clear that they use it as their primary entrance. They never use their front door. They have a sign on the front door telling post man/ couriers etc to go round the back. Again, wouldn't necessarily be a big issue except that there seems to CONSTANTLY be someone walking through! It's an older lady living there with her grandson. He is late teens/ early 20s maybe and in and out like a yo-yo, no exaggeration. Ditto her boyfriend, her dog walker, her cleaner, her food shop, couriers (she gets at least two packages a day!) .... The latter particularly pisses me off because they often don't close my gate behind them. I have an OAP dog and 4 children, the youngest of whom is 4. It'd take literal seconds to slip out of the garden without anyone noticing 😠 And frankly, now that its summer time it just feels quite intrusive. Strangers walking in and out while my children are playing. I stupidly feel awkward sitting outside to read a book even though it's my fucking garden!

Is it even a legal thing to say that they are over using their access?!

Should also add that I would probably mind all this less except that at the end of last year the handle of my gate broke. It was the week before Christmas and I didn't have time or money to fix it and it wasn't particularly a priority for me, but I told the neighbour I would sort it after Christmas, quite reasonably I thought. (I have a side door so actually rarely use the gate). Neighbour told me I had to fix it because it is "YOUR gate" and "a public right of way" (it isn't 🤣).Then proceeded to tell all the other neighbours that I was "refusing" to fix it because I didn't use it and that she "couldn't even get her food delivered" and would "rather die than use the front door"... After a week of hassle and harassment I ended up getting a friend's husband to fix it for free and neighbour has since apologised but... I don't know, it just left a sour taste.

Is there anything I can do? Do I just have to wait for her to move/die?? 🙈

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
FudgeFudy · Today 14:32

BigBilly · Today 14:16

There would be a problem with that legally. It would be called a deed of variation to amend the existing easement. Even if you believe that they can use it as they were using it is not acceptable in law unless agreed with a solicitor by both parties. I made all of these arguments myself when I was in the ops exact position with my end terrace house. It's an f ing minefield

Oh well we'll have to agree to disagree then, but I still think we must be misunderstanding each other. What I'm suggesting is akin to farmers running a fence along the side(s) of footpaths that run through fields - that happens all the time without any legal shenanigans. The OP would just be putting a fence up on her land that wasn't the subject of any easement, which must be OK.

Periperi2025 · Today 14:33

Augustus40 · Today 11:51

I personally would have avoided any easements such as this.

You need legal advice.

Easy to say, but 3 out of 4 houses i viewed in the village i live had rights of way easements.

Jackiepumpkinhead · Today 14:35

TheCurious0range · Yesterday 21:52

I think it's not as common in the south, I lived in a terrace in east London growing up and no one was wandering through people's gardens unless they were running from police. I then lived in an end terrace 50s build in Essex but even the attached houses had alleys. I now live in an Edwardian semi but there are lots of Victorian terraces around and those without side access keep their bins in the tiny yards at the front.

Until I visited a friend in Yorkshire I didn't know what a back to back was, I'd never seen one!

I’m in the south, it’s quite common where I am, especially in Victorian terraces. When looking for my first home, I saw two Victorian terraces I liked but didn’t proceed as they had this access issue. I was told it was just for bins, bikes etc but I didn’t want to take that risk. These weren’t even back to back terraces, so it was a little odd. And the access was right by the back of the house, rather than at the end of the garden which wouldn’t be quite so bad. I imagine over 100 years ago people weren’t such crappy and entitled neighbours and this wasn’t such an issue.

DontEatTheMushies · Today 14:37

Deepblueokay · Today 11:19

I'm the red box. She is attached. I don't know what the houses in the middle do but noone else has ever asked or needed to have access to my garden. Her garden gate is directly opposite my garden gate at the end of the garden closest to the house. They have to walk past my kitchen window.

Could you re route the path to the back of the garden? If it just says access, then I's be moving the path to the rear of garden for safety reasons.
She cannot complain about the distance, because if it was an issue she would use her FRONT FOOKING DOOR.

lightreflectingonwater · Today 14:38

DontEatTheMushies · Today 14:37

Could you re route the path to the back of the garden? If it just says access, then I's be moving the path to the rear of garden for safety reasons.
She cannot complain about the distance, because if it was an issue she would use her FRONT FOOKING DOOR.

Again, op can't do this without the other persons agreement.

godmum56 · Today 14:39

FudgeFudy · Today 14:32

Oh well we'll have to agree to disagree then, but I still think we must be misunderstanding each other. What I'm suggesting is akin to farmers running a fence along the side(s) of footpaths that run through fields - that happens all the time without any legal shenanigans. The OP would just be putting a fence up on her land that wasn't the subject of any easement, which must be OK.

Landowners can run a fence alonside where a footpath runs as marked on the map, but have to get permission to relocate the footpath eg from diagonally across the field to along 2 sides. Again it depends what the easement says. If there is a marked route, as my FIL had across his pub garden and carpark, then the user of the easement has to stick to the path. To be clear it was marked on the deeds and not on the land and it was a bit of a joke between himself and the next door home owner/easement user. It all depends on the terms of the easement.

lightreflectingonwater · Today 14:41

FudgeFudy · Today 14:27

There is a real difference between someone using the right of way to take their bins out and someone sending literally the whole world through your garden.

But this is the problem - depending on the terms of the easement there may well not be a difference. If the easement grants a general right of access for the neighbouring property over the OP's land then it can be used by anybody that needs access to the neighbouring property. The fact that there are other means of accessing the property is irrelevant, as is the fact that other people with similar set ups may only use it on bin day.

Hopefully the easement does say that only the current occupiers can use it, and only for certain purposes, but a) that would be quite unusual, and b) it still wouldn't the OP could just stick a lock on it as so many are suggesting.

I appreciate that this is not what you want to hear OP but you are not well served by people telling you what you want to hear if it is wrong.

Exactly

And it's not just about what the deeds say

If this lady has been using it more extensively than the deeds allowed for 20 years then she has acquired a prescriptive easement for the more extensive use.

People can be annoyed and think it rotten for op this has been settled law for a very long time

BridgetJonesV2 · Today 14:41

We bought our house some time ago OP but the deeds were held by the mortgage company until we'd paid it off and then they sent them to us recorded delivery. It was a huge file all about the land as it was previously an orchard attached to a sawmill before it was sold and built on. We then thought shit we need to keep these safe so took them to a solicitor to store for us.

Adelle79360 · Today 14:43

Deepblueokay · Today 13:44

I'm not trying to "extinguish" their rights. But what about my right to a secure home and garden? I didn't buy a dog or have 4 kids on a whim ...

There is no such thing as your right to a secure home and garden I wouldn’t have thought OP. You have a legal obligation to comply with the easement for the property you bought.

Unless you’re going to take proper legal advice you’re not going to know what can be done in this situation because it’s really specific to the property you purchased. The neighbour sounds like an irritating old bat quite frankly, but it could be dangerous to start telling her not to do something without having fully checked your legal position first. I do really feel for you - I can’t help but think your solicitors should have pointed out that you needed to be satisfied with the fact that people could come and go through your property. It IS intrusive - it’s why so many of us have said on this thread we didn’t proceed with purchasing such a property. You’re not unreasonable, it’s just unfortunate this wasn’t made clear to you before so that you could make an informed decision about whether you did want to buy the house.

IckyIck · Today 14:49

The easement probably applies to other properties in the block. It will be in the wording on the deeds.
You can't just move it, you'd need agreement from all affected parties.

The NDN will almost certainly have an easement across her property, and it will be a continuation of the one across OP's.

(If OP can prove that NDN is not using the actual easement, she might have a stronger case. )

CopeNorth · Today 14:57

Agree. Mine is just for bins….

CopeNorth · Today 14:59

If I have anything else other than bins, I try to warn / ask, for example the window cleaner once every 6 weeks, because I know they have dogs.

the neighbours do - very kindly bring my bin back round after the bin collection.

Jimmyjimmy123 · Today 15:00

My friends house was like this , long row of terraced houses, jennel through middle, front door opening onto living room so no-one used it.
I always thought it was off walking past someone's kitchen window to get to the back door, but I suppose when they were built life was more structured,everyone went to work at the same time, came home at the same time and generally only really had visitors at weekends, because no one had cars,
FF to 2026, life is very different,WFH, shift work,easy mobility,and of course online shopping,makes a set up like yours bloody annoying.

BigBilly · Today 15:02

FudgeFudy · Today 14:32

Oh well we'll have to agree to disagree then, but I still think we must be misunderstanding each other. What I'm suggesting is akin to farmers running a fence along the side(s) of footpaths that run through fields - that happens all the time without any legal shenanigans. The OP would just be putting a fence up on her land that wasn't the subject of any easement, which must be OK.

I wish it was ok, I can't see a problem with it but people who have the right to use on foot with or without workmen at all times and for all purposes are not likely to accept this. The op could try this but it might depend on how deep everypnes pockets are in my experience!

justasking111 · Today 15:04

You can't seriously insist that no-one uses your front door because you don't have a hallway though m

IckyIck · Today 15:04

@BigBilly , I think what @FudgeFudy is suggesting is putting a fence on the garden, leaving the easement accessible.

Gemilo · Today 15:37

I think if delivery people are leaving the gate open and you have small children and dogs in the garden then you are well within your rights to refuse them access. That is what a front door is for.

godmum56 · Today 16:27

Gemilo · Today 15:37

I think if delivery people are leaving the gate open and you have small children and dogs in the garden then you are well within your rights to refuse them access. That is what a front door is for.

No the OP will not be "well within their rights"

lightreflectingonwater · Today 16:37

Gemilo · Today 15:37

I think if delivery people are leaving the gate open and you have small children and dogs in the garden then you are well within your rights to refuse them access. That is what a front door is for.

And your legal qualifications are....?

BeingATwatItsABingThing · Today 17:27

FudgeFudy · Today 14:27

There is a real difference between someone using the right of way to take their bins out and someone sending literally the whole world through your garden.

But this is the problem - depending on the terms of the easement there may well not be a difference. If the easement grants a general right of access for the neighbouring property over the OP's land then it can be used by anybody that needs access to the neighbouring property. The fact that there are other means of accessing the property is irrelevant, as is the fact that other people with similar set ups may only use it on bin day.

Hopefully the easement does say that only the current occupiers can use it, and only for certain purposes, but a) that would be quite unusual, and b) it still wouldn't the OP could just stick a lock on it as so many are suggesting.

I appreciate that this is not what you want to hear OP but you are not well served by people telling you what you want to hear if it is wrong.

I know that. In my very first post on this thread, I said to check the deeds - as have so many other posters.

BigBilly · Today 17:30

IckyIck · Today 15:04

@BigBilly , I think what @FudgeFudy is suggesting is putting a fence on the garden, leaving the easement accessible.

I get what fudge fudy is suggesting, I'm suggesting that it is probably still not allowable by law unless agreed by both parties and drawn up officially with land registry. I have been in exactly this situation and there was no wiggle room whichever way I tried to wiggle it was a complete nightmare

lightreflectingonwater · Today 17:44

BeingATwatItsABingThing · Today 17:27

I know that. In my very first post on this thread, I said to check the deeds - as have so many other posters.

Checking the deeds won't necessarily suffice though. Ops neighbour could have acquired a more extensive right through long user.

user73 · Today 17:46

Deepblueokay · Yesterday 20:35

This is all I can really find.

OP where is the plan with the area shaded green. Can you post this. Your solicitor ought to have sent it to you when you bought the house. Can you also show the whole of this section including the wording above this?

Tumbler2121 · Today 17:47

My mother had this problem when she moved back to Scotland and bought an end of terrace house. She was assured that the way through her garden was for bins only. The people next door of course used it for everything, in particular kids and bikes.

Although the allowed use is a problem, there is also the just plain bad neighbours who enjoy annoying you.

I wonder if you could get a very heavy spring door closer, for the safety of your children and dogs, that would make it tricky for the neighbour to use regularly.

user73 · Today 17:50

We have a right of way for one house over part of our land. In practice other people were using it and as deliveries have become more popular use had naturally increased.

We put a keypad access with a nine digit access code on the gate and we change the gate every four weeks or so (and we notify the neighbour of the new code every single time). It's for security purposes. Sometimes we forget to change the code for a couple of days so the new code doesn't yet work but the old code still does (if you can remember that one)

Usage has dropped dramatically...