Do we need another rule to protect ourselves from rape?

[wellindeed]

These recent cases of a husband drugging their wife so other men can rape her are new level horrific to me.

We have always known that the vast majority of violence and sexual violence against women and girls happens at home by men. Normally, someone they know who often has some level of control and the women have, at some stage, thought they could trust.

We all know the rules of being female.

Women always take extra precautions from men every single time they leave the house, whether that is changing a walking route, getting a cab rather than walking or holding keys between our fingers. We know the rules of being female.

Women know not to leave their drink unattended or ask for Angela at the bar.

We know that sometimes when a partner is showing escalating controlling signs and is violent towards us at home, that it is better to not challenge this behaviour and plan the escape when he’s not around to avoid an increased risk of murder.

Women know that if a man follows us and is heckling at us, not to say anything because the man may become violent. Or as I taught my daughters go into the nearest shop and ask for help.

There are more examples of how we, as women, know the rules to attempt to protect ourselves from male violence.

Should we add another rule to being female?

If we feel sleepy, groggy unexpectedly or if we are having unexplained gyno medical issues should the rule be set up a camera to check our husband hasn’t been drugging us and getting random men in to rape us unconscious?

I mean what is wrong with men as a sex class.

It's terrifying. I know someone who found out due to various reasons her husband had been drugging her and anally raping her in her sleep. She has left him but won't report it as a crime - he is a solicitor and she feels she won't stand a chance against him/his colleagues. They are an ordinary couple, he is well respected etc. This came to light before the Pelicot case and I thought it must be a horrific one off. Now I realise it absolutely isn't. How do we know who to trust?

Yep.

The film Women Talking is about a case in a religious community, the Mennonites, where a group of men systematically raped more than 100 women, including a toddler, after drugging them with cattle tranquillisers.

There have been a few cases where men invited strangers in to rape their wives in the UK, too. The Pelicot case was not a one-off - far from it.

https://time.com/6213127/women-talking-true-story-book/

One woman has started a campaign group after finding her husband had done this to her for years (he has been jailed after conviction), and that frighteningly large numbers of men discuss how to do this, and get away with it, online.

The name of the campaign #EndEyeCheck refers to a practice where perpetrators pull back a victim's eyelid while they are sedated to prove they are unconscious before committing an assault, often recording and sharing these acts in online spaces.

Zoe said hundreds of women who have experienced drug-facilitated rape have been in contact from about 22 countries.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c332mjxz0gzo

@Honeyhonay I think this is the bit that is utterly chilling and means you can’t just write it off as a one off. You would have thought at least one decent man might have reported it. That so many of these men are simply part of the local community shocked me.

Men would just invade like they always fucking do. Either by insisting that they too are a woman, or just by force.

That’s a clue though. Fetish stuff is now being presented to men as an interest area, the same way my FB feed is full of knitting videos. So a man- or quite probably boy- will be introduced to many different niche possibilities that wouldn’t otherwise have crossed his mind. And it escalates.
Sadly in recent years, with boys, their exposure to this stuff probably precedes any experience. So their tastes are formed around what they are exposed to, and of course it’s normalised to them. At the expense of girls.

That’s why I suggested constant practice of defence. Women need to organise collectively and have weapons. I’m convinced the real reason men keep control of defence is to stop women doing exactly this. ‘Insisting they are women’ well quite clearly they aren’t.

There was recently a series in TV where men had a curfew after dark and various other curtails to their freedoms. I didn’t watch it all (started off well then got weird), but the premise was interesting.

idk what to think anymore about men! DD has been hassled recently (is gay w short hair and the androgynous look), my DS told me something quite shocking as well. Even the most ‘lovely’ men def have a dark side - urges or hormones they can’t control.

Its incredibly rare that 100s of men in your local area would rape a drugged woman if invited by her husband? How exactly do you know this? Wheres your evidence?

And just know, if when walking alone at night you do get attacked, you'll be told its your fault for being stupid enough to walk alone at night.

i saw this article earlier
How do these sick bastards find each other? I despair for our society and the future.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnv9er181lno?app-referrer=deep-link

Day after day, NAMALT looks more and more like wishful thinking.

I could go running with earphones in the middle of nowhere and drink in the freedom.

That's made me cry, we don't want the moon on a stick - we just want to be safe.

The men in the Manchester case all looked so ordinary. Different ages, ethnicities, jobs etc but all so ordinary looking. I mean I know it can be any man. But jeez it shocked and horrified me To the core seeing their faces arriving at court. Absolutely vile

How about an easy home test for date rape drugs? Wake up feeling groggy and confused - have the option to pee on a stick immediately.
That would provide physical evidence as well and covers all instances of spiking.

These are actually widely available for a few pounds. Definitely worth keeping in your medicine cabinet if you think there's any chance you could be at risk. Most women would never think their husband could do this to them though. Maybe these high profile cases will at least bring more awareness to the possibility, especially to those women experiencing unexplained symptoms.

I think until men lead conversations and are actively, regularly, publicly agreeing with the hirror of this behaviour it will not change. VAWG is appalling. The way the Internet has allowed the most heinous and despicable behaviour to be 'normalised' by creating echo chambers for crimes like this and creating enabling environments is sickening.

I guess so, yes. Too many men who think they and their urges are more important than any woman, or indeed any creature on earth. (Boys as victims too of course - there was a recent case of a 13 year old boy drugged and gang raped at a festival in Morocco, plus Preston Davey, who didn't need to be drugged as he was just a baby). There are too many men who don't give a fuck about anything but their dicks.

These already exist. A urine test kit for GHB costs around £5.

I think you are right and I suppose this point was my intentions for this thread.

It’s yet another thing to be on alert for, to consider could happen to us, by any man, even our ‘loving’ husbands.

Simple freedoms that are afford to boys and men.

I agree to a point, but I don’t think men are raping for sexual gratification. they are doing it simply for power. These cases of drugging are a good example because the husband isn’t actually getting his dick out.

Men as a sex class seem to get self worth out of having power of people and inflicting harm. Rape is just one facet of that urge for power and harm.

Let’s take the theory that men rape because they have sexual urges and are stronger than women and children so they do it because they can overpower the victim. This theory can’t be true because some women are much taller and stronger than other women but taller stronger women as a size class do not go around raping smaller women do they?

Crumbs. That’s a real ‘has it come to this’ moment. Good idea - could be linked directly to police is anything flags.

Add to that what clothes you were wearing . If you had bright red lipstick on and bright red nail polish that led the man on .

Yes it’s power . When I was sexually harassed at work it was because I was up myself , and had to be taken down a peg or two .

Well, it's the easy availability of online porn isn't it? It's completely warped large numbers of them.

It needs to be removed.

But the genie is out of the bottle.

Not sure they would. I mean, some co-operatives / communities manage to keep out people they don’t fancy by economic means, some by expectations of contribution (work) - geography can also be helpful. I should imagine the middle of a big city would be tricky but a falling down sprawling farmhouse might work. Or the trusty chateau - because the countryside is just big.