Do we need another rule to protect ourselves from rape?

[wellindeed]

These recent cases of a husband drugging their wife so other men can rape her are new level horrific to me.

We have always known that the vast majority of violence and sexual violence against women and girls happens at home by men. Normally, someone they know who often has some level of control and the women have, at some stage, thought they could trust.

We all know the rules of being female.

Women always take extra precautions from men every single time they leave the house, whether that is changing a walking route, getting a cab rather than walking or holding keys between our fingers. We know the rules of being female.

Women know not to leave their drink unattended or ask for Angela at the bar.

We know that sometimes when a partner is showing escalating controlling signs and is violent towards us at home, that it is better to not challenge this behaviour and plan the escape when he’s not around to avoid an increased risk of murder.

Women know that if a man follows us and is heckling at us, not to say anything because the man may become violent. Or as I taught my daughters go into the nearest shop and ask for help.

There are more examples of how we, as women, know the rules to attempt to protect ourselves from male violence.

Should we add another rule to being female?

If we feel sleepy, groggy unexpectedly or if we are having unexplained gyno medical issues should the rule be set up a camera to check our husband hasn’t been drugging us and getting random men in to rape us unconscious?

I mean what is wrong with men as a sex class.

It totally does my head in - I think we need to be more serious about both shaming and punishing offenders. Long sentences with expectation that they are served in full. Open registers of offenders so that afterwards any job requiring community trust is closed to them. No return to areas where victims are or may be.

No coming out on licence without evidence that they are no danger to women - or animals either - and consideration of whole life tagging orders.

There is some of this about - women getting together and buying chateaux in France seems to be having a moment, but there are women’s self-built communities also. They appear to take a shedload of time to set up.

Are they now?
A third of male university students admitted they would rape if there were no consequences. So if by the majority you mean 2/3 well that still leaves us with a lot of rapists.
American study but men are men the world over. And this was 10 years ago before the easy access to extreme violent porn boys and men now have at their fingertips.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/a-third-of-male-university-students-say-they-would-rape-a-woman-if-there-no-were-no-consequences-9978052.html

^ the examples of armies throughout history and conflict driven by men agrees with this too. Men in packs are not friends to women and cannot be trusted.

That's just not the reality.
Good men are not just the ones not abusing women, they are the ones standing up to other men doing it. They are that voice among their mates saying hang on, what you said is not ok. They are the ones not engaging in sexist so called banter. They are the ones who pull their mate away when he's grabbing at some woman who is clearly not interested and say to him leave her alone, she said no. The ones saying you can see she's drunk mate, get off her, she can hardly stand up. They are the ones who dont pass round women's nude photos and who tell their friends its not ok to send them. They're the ones who say its disgusting to send dick pics

I could go on all day.

So no. I dont agree that the majority of men are good. At best they are complicit.

Honestly. I have said for some time, the only rule on rape that needs to change is ‘guilty unless proven innocent.’

move the burden of proof.

prove she consented.
prove you didn’t cause her bruises.
prove you didn’t drug her.

If you can’t evidence that, then you can’t prove your innocence. By defacto you are not innocent.

The justice system doesn’t work. The political system does nothing to change the inherent behaviour and entitlement of men. Both uphold patriarchy.

@Error404FucksNotFound- I think
you’re right - we need to be able to talk
about the violence enacted against women
and girls by men, so people telling us that it’s not all men really need to stop. I mean, we know that not all men are depraved monsters, but that’s a pretty low bar really.

And these truly horrific cases like the GP case that are coming to light - these are somehow
being facilitated by society as it is today, and we need to be able to discuss all aspects of that openly as well.

I think the effect of online communities/social media has a lot to answer for.

If you had a horrible thought or fantasy in previous generations you mostly kept it to yourself and got on with your life because you knew you’d be vilified.

Nowadays you can google your darkest thought and find others who feel the same. Which normalises it in your mind and in many cases they egg each other on.

There is also a strong trend of divisions and silos and people becoming more entrenched in their “tribe” - some people identify as right vs left, some as men vs women.

I used to say 'it’s because they can', but women are equally capable of drugging living beings to abuse, so 'because they can' is no longer my argument. It’s not strength differences is it?

that sounds like heaven.

I could go running with earphones in the middle of nowhere and drink in the freedom.

Well you are lucky then, because 1 in 4 women will be raped by a man in their lifetime and more will be groped, followed and heckled at.

How is 1 in 4 blowing it out of proportion.

Current population is around 70 million so…..

17.5 million women living in the UK right now will be raped or sexually assaulted at least once in their lifetime by a man.

These figures are conservative because most assaults go unreported.

This is, sadly, a very good example of men as a sex class.

Raping civilian women and girls as a weapon of war and they do this en masse.

It’s sickening.
Last week at work a man was waiting outside my, clearly closed, place of work. As I approached to open the door and get in wearing my large headphones, he started talking to me. I took my headphones off and he was apparently asking to be let in. He was a workman. All workmen are employed through a specific contractor and they know our opening hours. I told him no, we were not open and open at 9am.
He asked again to be let in. I said no, we are not open and I am on my own so he cannot come in.
He then got all defensive and said it won’t take long.
As I was going through the door I repeated ‘ I am on my own! You can’t come in.’
I got in and was actually furious that some random fucking man thinks it’s acceptable to harass a sole woman like that.
It completely shows that they have no concept of the dangers women face.
I told my colleague who immediately messaged our boss to report his behaviour, and all staff we reminded never to let anyone in the building before or after the hours we open.
Our policy is clear. We do not work alone, ever, and all workmen and women know exactly what time we open and close and are repeatedly told not to ever try and gain access to our building outside of these hours.
Yes we are in but we are not open to anyone else. I am merely choosing to get in and get a head start.
No doubt he thought I was being pissy. If only women could go through life like that.

If you had a horrible thought in previous generations, you just went home and did it to your wife.

And do you really think that men didn’t share porn in the form of drawings, or share tips in the pub or at work?

But it wasn’t so long ago rape was legal in marriage.

I think the way women are raped has just changed form rather than got worse.

It has always been the case that the first step in a rape case is to scrutinise the women.

What was she wearing?
Why was she walking there?
Why was she out so late on her own?
Why did she kiss him if she didn’t want sex?
She was leading him on so what do you expect.
She’s had lots of sexual partners previously.
She was wearing lots of makeup.
She was married to him.

There was a man local to us who was drugging his wife to SA his young granddaughter who was living with them , it was going on for years - this was a couple of decades ago, so not a new thing at all.

I don't think it would hurt if GPs could give women who present complaining of unexplained grogginess and tiredness to issue them with a blood form in advance to see the phlebotomy clinic when they next feel this way, to include a full drug screen.

It’s honestly rage inducing.

And the still widely held view that women are ruled by their emotions and men are ruled by logic… have you seen men? What can you say other than a huge proportion of them are clearly driven exclusively by their emotions and urges?

We can’t tell ourselves it’s a small minority of men anymore, we clearly know otherwise.

If that was the case a husband wouldn’t be able to find hundreds of men within the local area to come and rape his drugged wife, if it was a small minority a man wouldn’t find it acceptable to shout out onto the street asking did other men want to come into the hotel room and rape the woman they were just raping, it if was a minority of men then several men wouldn’t have taken up that offer from a complete stranger while just walking home and stop to rape someone.

I read about a woman who as an office cleaner, she worked in a skyscraper type building. She was being followed by a male worker in the building during her shift and had told her family she was feeling worried because he was following her around and making her uncomfortable. She went back to work because she needed the money but was trying to find a new job because of this man,
Anyway, she went to work one evening and sadly disappeared. They found her body weeks later in an air conditioning vent, tied up and gagged. She was left in the vent alive by that guy, unable to scream for help or get herself out.

They aren't quite good enough. Which is why it takes a female village leader to get rid of child marriage. Women, long ago, going into institutions to bring about change. Women joining the Police, Army, Ambulance and fire services to get rid of criminal/dangerous and damaging behaviour. Like the song out of Mary Poppins, 'Sister suffragette', "
Though we adore men individually
We agree that as a group they're rather stupid" and we can't count on them to do what's right.

How about an easy home test for date rape drugs? Wake up feeling groggy and confused - have the option to pee on a stick immediately.

That would provide physical evidence as well and covers all instances of spiking.

I'm bewildered by these men as well. Are they mentally sick? Insane? Do they feel the need to demonstrate their power over a woman to other men in such a depraved way? What level of inadequacy would lead someone to do that?

Or is it a monumental act of spite, and they hope one day to be caught, so their wife will know how she has been used?

The older I get the more I notice and the more I'm beginning to really despise them as a species. I live in a ground floor flat and in this heat I would love to be able to sleep with my windows open but because of men (burglars I could deal with at a push), I can't keep my windows open nor can I go for a late night stroll in the nearby park to cool down. I genuinely feel like I have so many limited options because of their predatory ways and other men don't seem to be doing anything to put a stop to it.

It was far too hot the last few nights so I slept with my windows open and knives under my pillow. If anyone were to try and climb in and do anything to me I'd have to take matters into my own hands despite the fact this would probably lead to me being imprisoned.

You’re wrong. 62m visits by men to a ‘rape academy’. https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2026/03/world/expose-rape-assault-online-vis-intl/index.html

@minipie in the days when we had top shelf, porn mags, there'd be averts for fetish clubs/harder stuff. Likewise actual, over 18, sex shops, which would have under counter stuff and contact details for fetish stuff/rape/paedophilia. Then there'd be pimps offering depraved stuff, snuff videos/pictures have been around, from the start. Victorian child brothels were used by the rich and famous. @hahabahbag that was when we needed men to tell on each other, but they didn't. Let's face it, if King Charles hadn't have been getting publicly heckled over Andrew, he'd have ignored what went on, just as all of Parliament/HOL let Mandelson, carry on as usual.

@Meadowfinch "I'm bewildered by these men as well. Are they mentally sick? Insane?"
Passed out chicks, has always been a popular search on porn sites.