AIBU to be confused about how teachers' salaries are paid?

[Mayflower282]

My friend is a teacher and I said to her the other day something along the lines of “I miss that long stretch of freedom in the summer”…she replied annoyed that “teachers are still working during the summer, prepping for next year etc, and we don’t get paid for the time off”…I’m confused by this. For example a teacher job advertised as £30k, they get 30k split over the 12 months right? Or do they only get £30k equivalent for the actual weeks they are working and this is split over the 12 months?

For the ease of complications I’ve not included tax, NI etc:

YABU - teachers only get paid for what they work, eg £30k equivalent for only 40 weeks split over the year (£30,000/52 weeks =£576 per week, and then 576*40/12 =£1,923 per month

YANBU - teacher gets £30k spilt over the year, £2500 per month

No, but you'll return to work for a day or two at the end of term and be paid for the following August 😉

Most teachers, it seems to me plan their maternity leaves so they start in September/October and end in July.

What about all the unpaid hours they do.

Holidays they don't get paid for. It's a shitty job frankly, and I hope that one day very soon my DP is able to join the exodus leaving the profession. The only thing he enjoys is teaching the kids and seeing their excitement/happiness when they do well at something, but the rest of the job – the insane workload, the demands from the SLT, dealing with entitled parents who think he's their personal employee/childminder – is wearing him down. I don't think people realise how bad the recruitment and retainment crisis is in schools.

I am changing jobs this summer and had to fight tooth and nail to get my summer pay. As stated above, I am paid for a certain amount of hours, over so many weeks, which is then pro rated over 12 months. Therefore, I have worked the hours over the academic year, and so I should receive the summer pay.
The school lawyer also told them that they have to pay me…

(left a really bitter taste in my mouth, especially considering how many additional hours I have worked over the last ten years, marking students works, planning projects and preparation for lessons. Thankfully new school seems to be all above board!)

This frequently comes up and I think its when people talk about reducing the holidays, working longer hours. Teacher contracts in most schools (some academies have different contracts) state 1265 directed time, so teaching, tutor times, meetings, inset, parents evenings over the 39 weeks school is open. Most do more but that's covered with the 'plus additional hours to perform all duties'.

If the holidays were reduced or the school day extended this is where the contracts would need to be looked at. 1265 is approx 6.5 hours a day for 39 weeks (teachers do 39, students do 38 due to INSET days). We are not paid for lunchtimes. If the holidays were reduced teacher contracts would need to be renegotiated as we would be working more hours for the same pay.

I will say I am a teacher who does very little work during the holidays so never state that.

I don't think it matters. They are paid an annual salary in 12 installments.
I think the argument that they're not paid for holidays causes some resentment as every teacher I know works a good percentage of those holidays. In summer it's planning for the year ahead. Christmas it's marking mocks and Easter it's going in to school to do revision sessions as well as marking.

Ah everybody hates a teacher. These threads only go one way

This-it comes up when people (usually parents who want more their children in school for more hours as childcare is so expensive) suggest increasing the term length without considering that you the huge cost it would incur. My favourites are the ones who say the 5 INSET days should just ‘come out of the teachers holidays as they get so much time off’ without realising…they already did,

It's weird because my friend is a teacher, very rarely works past 5.30 and seems to have all holidays properly off, too. She's very organized and has been a teacher for a long time.

How weird indeed!🙄

My Mum was a teacher ..my Dad always used to say her hourly rate was rubbish watching her work evenings and weekends and more. I agree

Teachers get paid for 1265 hours, or 195 days. In reality, teachers work way more hours than that. I'd say about triple that, including in the holidays. The pay is split up over 12 months but the reason it's so low in comparison to other professional roles is because it's only a part time wage.

You do get paid in August. You get paid for 1265 hours (although this in under threat) and it’s divided by 12.

Those hours include parents evenings, twilight training, morning briefing, meetings. You’re often required to attend a “quick meeting “ after school, before school or lunch - unscheduled and not directed time.

Many teachers work over Easter and half terms.

Realistically you get 3-4 weeks off (if you choose to) over summer but most teachers try and prep for year ahead and many go into school to do admin and displays, tidy up, coursework marking and so on.

There are many surveys and studies to support that teachers work around 60 hours a week and at least one day at weekends. So the 1265 doesn’t cover it.

Yeah you get good holidays but you can’t not look after your elderly parents , or clean your house, go to the dentist, eat healthily and so on until August. And of course, you pay top dollar for holidays.
I taught for 25 years and then went off sick with WRS and subsequently retired.

I miss the kids and teaching, I don’t miss pointless admin and automated behaviour monitoring.

Most of all I don’t miss the daily (including holidays and weekends) strategising about how I was going to fit everything in. It’s a shame but modern teaching is no way to live.

Their salary is technically only for term time
only but paid spread across 12 months.

Teaching is a weird profession. On paper in the standard contract it looks like teachers only work 1265 hours a year with an annual salary split over 12 months. But there is a real deal breaker of a sentence that follows the 1265 hours of " and any other hours deemed reasonable."
This means that 1265 covers pupil contact time, meetings and basic prep and marking. In reality, prep and marking can take a lot more time than is allocated.
For example, when my year 11 students did Mock exams I had 23 hours of exam paper marking to fit in over the 2 weeks Christmas holiday, in addition to any other regular prep and marking for my other classes. (Science) I know, I timed it and I'm an experienced marker! No option to spread it out as results had to be on the database the first week after the Xmas break. A similar exam pattern is seen in the last term.
Some teachers in subjects like English have an even heavier exam marking burden
So some teachers do have to work in the holidays. They don't choose to.
Marking and prep load varies massively between subjects - particularly for secondary. It's not a coincidence that the most marking intensive subjects often have the biggest recruiting problems.
People outside the profession shouldn't just assume that a teacher who leaves work at 4.30 and seems to have lots of holiday isn't actually putting in loads of hidden hours elsewhere . They could be marking as I was or maybe regularly giving up big chunks of their weekends and evenings as PE, Drama, Music and Primary teachers do.
If teaching was such a cushie number trainees wouldn't be leaving the profession in droves within the first couple of years

They are paid a salary over 12 months.

They work for 195 days per year.

Teachers are required to be in site 1265 hours over 195 days per annum. They are required to do other work, at home, to fulfil their duties e.g preparation and marking.

And for 1265 hours which includes Parents Consultations, after school meetings and 10% of teaching time PPA (planning, preparation and assessment) . Most teachers work way over that because they do work during the holidays, planning and preparing teaching materials, setting up classrooms ready for the new term/year. When I was DSL, I attended Case Conferences during one summer because a family of 3 siblings had been taken into council care and the process needed to be followed through
But teachers do get fed up of being expected , as a matter of course, to work extra hours/days

People are leaving for a whole host of reasons. Some teachers have degrees which are highly sought after in industry and could be being paid much more. I certainly have lost colleagues for this reason.

It depends where you live. I had to relocate 200 miles away to be able to buy a house in the 80s. (Even more difficult now I know ) I was reasonably well paid for that area, in other places the salary will seem relatively low.

The salary is for 195 days at work but 1265 hours Directed Time plus the extra hours you put in.I don't think you can dispute that.

I retired last year after teaching 30 years,my salary was not £55k.
That would have been a good salary…

Look at the actual hourly rate. Its shit. 50/60 hour weeks for a lot of term time.

55k is top of the scale (Scotland anyway) so yes it's a good salary after your first 5 years.

im a teacher and disagree that it is a well paid job because we work well over our contracted hours. Eg mine are officially 8.30am till 3.30pm with a half hour lunch break, but I have a 15minute lunch break, arrive and start working at 7.30am and leave at 5.30 or 6pm plus work through my half day or work half a day of every weekend. It’s impossible for me to do my job without working these substantial extra hours but I can’t claim overtime. If I work out the hours I put in against my salary it comes out pretty much at minimum wage.
That’s before you take into consideration the hundred pounds a year I spend on resourcing my classroom with things like essential stationary for the kids and the breakfast bars I bring in for children whose parents can’t/wont give their kids breakfast/snacks.
I love my job but I should be paid more, in my opinion.

While I appreciate teachers saying they work longer hours, so do a lot of other professions. I often start at 8, leave at 5-6pm. Then do another few hours on the evening…. And I don’t get such good holidays.

Teachers do a fantastic job, and I have huge respect. What I always struggle with on threads like this is teachers assuming they are hard done by. There are a LOT of other people who also work over contracted hours, it’s not unique to teaching!