AIBU to be confused about how teachers' salaries are paid?

[Mayflower282]

My friend is a teacher and I said to her the other day something along the lines of “I miss that long stretch of freedom in the summer”…she replied annoyed that “teachers are still working during the summer, prepping for next year etc, and we don’t get paid for the time off”…I’m confused by this. For example a teacher job advertised as £30k, they get 30k split over the 12 months right? Or do they only get £30k equivalent for the actual weeks they are working and this is split over the 12 months?

For the ease of complications I’ve not included tax, NI etc:

YABU - teachers only get paid for what they work, eg £30k equivalent for only 40 weeks split over the year (£30,000/52 weeks =£576 per week, and then 576*40/12 =£1,923 per month

YANBU - teacher gets £30k spilt over the year, £2500 per month

Former teacher and headteacher here. Some teachers and unions argue they're not paid for holidays, simply because if they have pay docked (for strikes, for example) they're docked 1/195 of their salary - based on the days they must be in school.

I always argued it was a salary, so I was paid in the holidays.

I work in a school and really should know this but don’t. I work as admin, I only get paid for 38weeks of the year and my holiday entitlement is rolled into my annual pay and split over 12. This way I still get paid when it’s the holidays and makes it easier to budget. I’d assume teachers are similar paid to support staff.

Teachers get paid their salary (so £30k in your example) spread over 12 months, however they are only getting paid to work in term-time, but their salary is chunked into equal pay packets throughout the year.
So teachers don't get paid "for" the holidays, but they do get some of their (term-time) salary paid "in" the holidays.

Imagine you didn't work in December, but agreed with your employer that instead of not getting paid in December you would take a reduction in pay year-round.

ah thanks posters, that’s cleared things up! I see what she meant now

Teachers are paid for 195 days across the year-190 teaching days and 5 training days. They are paid their salary split into 12 equal monthly payments.

In Scotland its calculated into teaching days/inset days/holidays (I think like 30 or 40 days) and school closure days but the pay is spread over 12 months. So your salary is made up from 190 teaching days, 5 inservice days, 40 days "holiday" and the rest of the time is unpaid school closure days. You accrue holiday at like 0.2 days a week or something.
In practice it doesn't really affect anyone except with things like maternity leave where you can't accrue 13 weeks holiday, just the amount you would have accrued for the number of teaching days. Not sure I've explained that any clearer 😂

Yes, really it's just a high salary per weeks worked pro rata'ed down to be paid across 52 weeks. (So £39k pro rata for 40 weeks' work, paid across non-working time as well, working out at £30k p/a). Teachers' pay is quite good, considering the weeks worked aspect.

Yes. Some teachers love to argue they're not paid for holidays but on a pro rata basis they'd be very well paid indeed, and they also like to argue they're badly paid 🤣

I am one btw, but also recognise pay is pretty good. It's not poor pay that means people are leaving.

No because you'll be getting c. 80% of a full time salary split over 12 payments. Teachers get the full salary.

It's ridiculous and something the unions keep banging on about when they are arguing for a payrise. It does them no favours as it's just so silly.

Teachers' salaries are set at an annual rate and they are paid the same amount every month. All the stuff about not getting paid for holidays or whatever is by the by, all teachers in Scotland will be getting their salary at the end of July even though many schools closed yesterday, just as teachers in England will be getting their salary in August.

Does it make a difference when looking at holiday pay if you leave? If everything stays the same then the legal holiday entitlement you get (per law) and the pay you get makes no difference. Interestingly, support staff salaries are shown differently when advertised. So will show full pay and then if you only work term time you will get that pro rata, for example if you are a TA. If you work in finance you may work all year and then only have statutory holiday time off

I think one of the problems is people look from the outside and think teachers get a good deal and use holiday to suggest teachers are well paid for what they do.

I am paid less now than when I was a teacher and have less holiday. Yet I wouldn’t return to teaching because the workload and stress for the pay is absolutely not worth it! It’s hard to explain the intensity of it and I’ve worked in the city and in other jobs considered ‘high stress’. Ultimately teachers have voted with their feet and half of qualified teachers are not teaching a decade later.

Hi I'm in Scotland and the salary is £55k after your first 5 years. Classroom teacher. I do feel it's a good salary. I want to say we get the same holidays 5 weeks plus bank holidays as other LA workers (paid) then the rest is unpaid and the salary is split over 12 months so you are paid the same every month even if off for 6 weeks.

Is that what she means?

High salary 😂😂😂😂 you've never taught.

Yes, I believe it works out at 26 days a year that are unpaid holidays for teachers (in Scotland anyway).

You're absolutley right, but all the money in the world isn't going to change that. The pay is not what's wrong with teaching.

No teachers leave and are paid to their last day, regardless of when it falls in the year. Support staff may owe or be owed pay depending on how much of their unpaid time they've worked.

Teacher’s pay is abysmal and per hour, due to the relentless unpaid overtime, works out not much more than minimum wage.

Then that confirms that technically they don’t get paid for their holidays doesn’t it.

However, if many teachers got paid for the actual hours they do and the resources they supply out of their pocket they would get paid more

I left due to poor pay.

No, the exact opposite. Support staff have to repay any unpaid leave element they haven't worked. Teachers don't because there isn't any.

Except no teacher ever works just their 1,265 directed hours. The average teacher puts in between 780-1k additional unpaid hours over the course of the 38 weeks that they're in school. There aren't many professions where you're under pressure to work so many hours for free.

At the very least, we get statutory annual leave bundled into our pay packet - we just don't get to choose when we take it obviously. The complaints about pay are that they haven't adjusted for inflation over the last 20 odd years, and that the starting salary is very decent, but doesn't rise enough with experience, so a teacher with 20+ years experience isn't earning that much more than an ECT. As others have said though, most teachers I know are happy with their salaries. Working conditions are a different matter.

The biggest scandal for me is maternity pay for teachers. If you give birth end of July, you’ll have worked your full 1265 hours but don’t get full pay for August!

Equally there's not many jobs where you have such long holidays. So a bit of swings and roundabouts.