AIBU to advise anyone who is ever rude to stay out of Germany?

[Zebrasarecooler]

I've just come across a German law which says that if you insult someone and they report you you'll be prosecuted. Punishment is up to one year in prison, or up to two years if you insulted the person in public or in a group setting. Or a fine.
In case people think that this only applies to really serious insults, here's some advice from a German law firm:

Examples of criminal insults:

VERBAL INSULTS:
Calling someone an ‘arsehole’, ‘idiot’, ‘slut’ or ‘scumbag’.
A member of the public calls a police officer on duty a ‘cop scum’.
An employee calls their line manager a ‘loser’ during a meeting.

GESTURES AND ACTIONS:
Giving the middle finger whilst driving.
Making an obscene gesture during an altercation.
Spitting at someone’s feet.

INSULTS ONLINE:
Defamatory comments on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter.
Sharing defamatory memes or caricatures.
Insults in WhatsApp groups.

As an analogy, in places like Iran and Saudi Arabia you can have your hand chopped off for stealing.
I'm sure shoplifting is much less of a problem in those countries, but is that the way we want to go?
And looking at that, it's clear that the chopping off hand penalty isn't used in a fair, even-handed way:
"the frequency with which judicial amputations are carried out varies. Enforcement can depend on the political climate, public attitude, and judges‘ discretion."

I don't want to lose my freedom to tell a friend (or someone I mistakenly thought was a friend) he's an idiot. Or to give another driver a V sign when he's just failed to hit my car. I don't think this level of control over society is a good thing. I don't want to be constantly checking what I say and who I say it to, looking over my shoulder all the time, worrying about how something may be used against me, never having a drink in case I slip up and say something mildly insulting to someone.

An Iranian once told me that although things appeared quiet and peaceful in Iran, underneath that everyone was deeply unhappy.

Thing is, stealing is almost universally a crime of some description.

Using non-discriminatory hurty words shouldn’t be

Most people in Germany are respectful towards other people and even if this law is real ive never heard of anyone being arrested for calling someone an arsehole in an argument.
Germany is a great place to visit 😀

No, I'm not German. And I'm not advocating that there should be no come-back against extreme cases. We have a real problem here of people sending death and rape threats to politicians they disagree with, for instance. The law already exists to deal with that, but it probably isn't made use of enough. I absolutely don't agree with the criminal law being used against people who complain about things in shops. If someone is rude to someone on the till, the shop is fully within its rights to ban that person from that shop, or from all its branches. It shouldn't be a matter for criminal action except in an extreme situation (eg violence or threats of violence).
Of course this kind of law has a worse impact on people who are poor and under stress because of that, on disabled people, etc.

I see, you are a lawyer or perhaps a law buff. Nice hobby. I'd love to know more about international law. Do you know of any other cool or amusing examples of differences in the law between countries?

I read that as "service dessert" initially, I was like ooooh is that where they give you a hard stare Paddington-style if you are a bad customer

I also have a face that has subtitles 🤣

i think even strangers can understand what it says

I think people tend to be far more polite in Germany, I wouldn’t necessarily call them open and friendly but they are certainly polite and respectful

they are also very upfront so there is no need to get annoyed as we do when something isn’t right, we huff and puff away moan to others and get worked up there they just plainly say this isn’t right please correct it

I at first found my German friend’s straightforward talking rude 😀 it took her a few years of living here to understand so much of our way of communicating is indirect and we often prioritise politeness or avoidance of getting into a disagreement over being honest

Well no because running a red light is a crime.

German police are not people i would want to be on the wrong side of....they seem to have less restrictions on when to use force,probably accounts for a lot of nice public behaviour.

She’s never been to Germany, you can tell.

This law is neither cool nor amusing, unfortunately.
I'm not a law buff, particularly. I was listening to a German podcast to improve my German, and this came up.
I've also heard (on a different German podcast) that it's a criminal offence to use "du" when speaking to a policeman. You know that the Germans use "du" ("you") for friends and family and "Sie" (the more formal version of "you") for other people.

And they aren’t. I don’t know why everyone is believing this nonsense

It's a German law, as has been explained, with a direct quote from a German law firm, explaining the law. See the start of this thread.

Actually I was in Stuttgart 2 weeks ago. One of quite a few visits.

It’s probably much nicer to be able to go about your day without abuse from other people. It’s utterly prolific in Britain, don’t have to do much without the risk of a mouthful of unprovoked abuse whether it’s asking for your reserved seat on a train to be vacated or asking your neighbour not to block your driveway.

There a lots of odd laws in every country doesn’t mean they are acted upon

Unbelievably its illegal to drive a vehicle while blindfolded in Alabama 😮 how unfair is that surely how people want to dress while in the confines of their own car is up to them

The law is clearly in use, and there's loads on the internet about it. Here's some more clarification:

"The penalties for insulting someone may vary depending on the seriousness of the case. As a rule, a fine is imposed, the amount of which is based on the offender’s income. In particularly serious cases or for repeat offenders, a prison sentence of up to one year may also be imposed. For offences committed in public or through the distribution of written material, the prison sentence may even be up to two years.

A high-profile case from the recent past shows that even public figures are not immune to the consequences of defamation. A well-known politician had referred to another politician as a ‘liar’ on a talk show. The person concerned filed a criminal complaint, and the court sentenced the accused to a fine. The judgement made it clear that even in political discourse, the limits of freedom of expression must not be exceeded."

I'll attach a link to this (one of many examples online) for the strange person/s who somehow thinks I've made the whole thing up, despite the existence of the internet and, if they're too lazy to search the internet, AI.

Oh dear, I've called that person "strange" and "lazy". If I called someone "strange and lazy" and we were both in Germany, they would probably be able to go to the police about my use of those insulting words.

Is that genuinely what some of you want?

"An insult is an expression of contempt towards a person. As a rule, the victim is addressed using a swear word.
However, simply using a swear word does not in itself constitute a criminal offence of insult. Depending on the context of the remark, the insult may not be perceived as such. Furthermore, an insult may even be justified in certain circumstances.
Those accused of a criminal offence should refrain from making any statements for the time being and exercise their right to remain silent!
Victims of an insult should report it to the police and file a criminal complaint there. It is not uncommon for convictions to be secured. If the perpetrator ultimately escapes punishment, they will at least have been ‘marked’ once.
Furthermore, victims of an insult are also entitled to comprehensive civil claims. These are not pursued by the police and must be asserted by the victims themselves!

REQUEST A FREE INITIAL ASSESSMENT DIRECTLY FROM A SOLICITOR!
Have you been insulted, or are you facing allegations of insulting someone, and do you need an initial legal assessment? If so, please feel free to contact us! Our initial assessment is non-binding and completely free of charge for you!!"

https://www.recht.help/informationen/strafrecht/strafttat-beleidigung-was-ist-eine-beleidigung-wann-strafbar-wie-anzeigen/

I much prefer freedom of speech

I really like these laws. I'm going to start encouraging any wankers I meet to holiday in Germany now. 😂

Does Germany have the same shortage of prison places that we do?

I’d imagine that many of these things are, in theory, illegal in England as well. We just don’t have the prison places for them.

When I was on a German exchange in 1995, one girl in our group got caught shoplifting. She found out the hard way that German police take it seriously!

One thing I have heard is that the word “reasonable” appears much more in English law than German law, implying there is more discretion in English law.

I work in Germany one week each month and trust me, if this law was enforced 3/4 of Cologne would be in prison. Including everyone in my office. Especially everyone in my office 🤣

It is a civilised place though, people are certainly more polite and socially aware of others than where I live in the Netherlands. You really notice it driving.

(My middle finger gets used a LOT on Dutch roads)

If you are getting mouthfuls of abuse every day, it’s either you or the area you are in.

I have rarely had mouthfuls of abuse anywhere I have been (and I know I am fucking annoying!)

This law firm is the equivalent of an ambulance chaser.

I think we should introduce the rule here