AIBU to advise anyone who is ever rude to stay out of Germany?

[Zebrasarecooler]

I've just come across a German law which says that if you insult someone and they report you you'll be prosecuted. Punishment is up to one year in prison, or up to two years if you insulted the person in public or in a group setting. Or a fine.
In case people think that this only applies to really serious insults, here's some advice from a German law firm:

Examples of criminal insults:

VERBAL INSULTS:
Calling someone an ‘arsehole’, ‘idiot’, ‘slut’ or ‘scumbag’.
A member of the public calls a police officer on duty a ‘cop scum’.
An employee calls their line manager a ‘loser’ during a meeting.

GESTURES AND ACTIONS:
Giving the middle finger whilst driving.
Making an obscene gesture during an altercation.
Spitting at someone’s feet.

INSULTS ONLINE:
Defamatory comments on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter.
Sharing defamatory memes or caricatures.
Insults in WhatsApp groups.

If you insult a work colleague, you can be disciplined by your employer for that. Why the hell should the police get involved? And why should we have to trust in the legal system not to end up in prison for calling someone an idiot? The judge may be having a bad day. These minor societal issues should be dealt with within society. If you're rude to people, you don't get invited to parties, you lose jobs, etc.
And on the German podcast they were talking about how the police can enter and search your house over these accusations, check your computer, etc.

Many years ago a friend got arrested in Germany for jaywalking. Crossed an empty street on a red man! However, lots of countries have slightly odd laws that are not actually enforced. And I have found both Germany and Mauritius pleasant to visit.

Why is it bollocks? I certainly don't want to live in a country where I have to watch every word I say and every hand gesture I make, even in moments of great stress. If my friend does something infuriating and I call them a twat, they can stop being my friend. Problem solved. If I call my boss a loser in front of the team, he can give me a warning or potentially sack me. No need for the strong arm of the law to police every interaction.
And inevitably people use these kinds of laws maliciously. If you have a grudge against someone, you can either get together with a mate and make up a story about the person you've got it in for being rude to you, or you can provoke a situation. This kind of law is very open to abuse.

They may be pleasant to visit, but you don't know what's going on below the surface.

Thanks - that explains my point much better than I did and was exactly what I meant 😬

Exactly. Insulting your boss to their face is rarely going to be without consequences and that’s fine.

However being able to message your friend after to moan about them is a hill I would die on 🤣

I just checked with my sister who has been in admin of a German prison for over 30 years and according to her there has never been anyone in her prison because they insulted someone, ever. I have the impression she thought I had gone a bit mental for even asking this question. According to her you have to do something seriously bad involving physical harm to end up in prison and that there isn't enough prison spaces without putting people into prison for something like that.
This thread really brought out every prejudice about Germany that there is, was that your plan?

Any chance your ninth post could contain a cite please ?

I certainly don't want to live in a country where I have to watch every word I say and every hand gesture I make, even in moments of great stress. You sound very worried and worked up about a situation that, unless you're living in Germany or planning to move there, is unlikely to affect you directly. It can be healthier to focus on things you can influence and on issues that impact you, your loved ones, or your community. Daily gratitude exercises can genuinely help people maintain perspective and reduce anxiety. For example, you're fortunate to live in a country where you're legally free to call someone a cunt without ending up in jail. That in itself is a huge privilege.

The problem with laws like this is that enforcement is selective and arbitrary. Many many people will have broken this law with no consequences. But if someone does something legal that the government or a political opponent doesn’t like, they can trawl their social media or provoke them and then prosecute under this law. And that variable enforcement and opportunity for revenge prosecution is a very bad idea.

Because no one gets arrested for being rude. There’s a law against verbal abuse towards public service staff but that’s it. Stop making things up 😂

Sounds fair!

I can't speak for anyone else, but I am still waiting for some indication this law exists.

Or is it liberal elite not to trust "bloke says" these days ? If so consider me a liberal elitist on avocado toast. (Smashed, naturually)

I think we can tell😂

There is certainly a law against abuse of public servants but in reality Germans swear and call each other names and stick their middle fingers up at others just as much as the British do and nobody gets arrested or charged for it. I have certainly heard police officers being called Arschloch or Nazi (always popular) and they didn't arrest that person unless they were also violent (mostly during the Wackersdorf protests). Yes, there is scope for abuse of this but that's no different in the UK and its hate crime law, like the woman who got arrested for putting GC stickers up or that couple who had the police visit over some posts in a school WA group.

There may be all sorts of laws.

None of which has been cited or linked here.

This thread may as well be about the Surrey Puma. Or Bigfoot.

😂

It's § 185 StGB

Why are people being rude in the first place?!

As someone whos lived there, it clearly works because I rarely saw arsehole behaviour in public.

Other laws more enforceable include no hanging of washing on a Sunday. Its deemed a family day so no "chores" are done.....try find an open shop for milk etc is crazy. Cigarette machines on the street (like you used to get in pubs) are a thing for this reason.

You are responsible for clearing your own pathway in winter. As in from your front door til it meets a pavement. Postman slips on black ice etc outside your house......you are getting sued. Hence so many grit boxes.

I cited it upthread. It was a very quick Google, I recommend trying it some time.

Section 185 of the German Criminal Code (Strafgesetzbuch or StGB) defines and penalizes the criminal offence of Insult (Beleidigung). It protects a person's honor and dignity from verbal attacks, written defamation, or offensive gestures.

It does not specifically apply to public servants. German people think it does, and insulting a government employee tends to be treated more seriously. I believe an amendment's currently going through whatever the process is, which makes insulting a public servant a specific offence.

Surely people being prevented from being able to admonish each other makes more arsehole behaviour, not less?

I nearly got run over by a motorcyclist a couple of years ago when he sped through a red light. I did shout an obscenity at him - yet according to that I would be the one in trouble!

The German podcast I was listening to was discussing the crime of insulting a politician. Which is more serious and can be prosecuted even if the politician doesn't put in a complaint. They were discussing a case in which someone had apparently called a politician a "schwachkopf", which means "dimwit" or "idiot". That's enough to have the police searching your house and taking your computer away for analysis. And you can get imprisoned for it.

It tickles me that OP is advising not to visit Germany as you are not allowed to be rude and offensive there (allegedly). Brits have a particular reputation in Germany and other European countries, and this thread does confirms why. @Zebrasarecooler are you German?

And it should be the same here.

I've spent most of my adult life managing shops. How many customers treat staff is appalling, to the point that in my city, the police have a branch purely to deal with acts against retail workers.

If I never have to hear the phrase "I know it's not your fault but..." I shall be a very happy woman.

And yes, well done Germany. Not tolerating people being shitty towards each other should be applauded.