AIBU to advise anyone who is ever rude to stay out of Germany?

[Zebrasarecooler]

I've just come across a German law which says that if you insult someone and they report you you'll be prosecuted. Punishment is up to one year in prison, or up to two years if you insulted the person in public or in a group setting. Or a fine.
In case people think that this only applies to really serious insults, here's some advice from a German law firm:

Examples of criminal insults:

VERBAL INSULTS:
Calling someone an ‘arsehole’, ‘idiot’, ‘slut’ or ‘scumbag’.
A member of the public calls a police officer on duty a ‘cop scum’.
An employee calls their line manager a ‘loser’ during a meeting.

GESTURES AND ACTIONS:
Giving the middle finger whilst driving.
Making an obscene gesture during an altercation.
Spitting at someone’s feet.

INSULTS ONLINE:
Defamatory comments on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter.
Sharing defamatory memes or caricatures.
Insults in WhatsApp groups.

I love Germany. People are polite, kind and patient. So sounds like a good idea to me.

They can handle their beer better than the Brits. In fact many in Europe can.

Haha! Yes!

If it's not alright to insult disabled people, or black people why is it alright to insult other people? Not that you even know if someone is disabled or not.

But those notices don’t create an offence, which is what Beamtenbeleidigung is, plus the German offence is specifically concerned with police and other public officials.

Whilst there’s no specific offence in the UK, the police can use public order legislation to arrest plus any police officer anywhere in the world would find a way to help you reflect on your choices, if sufficiently provoked.

Berlin would be a lot quieter though?

Oh blimey. I hope this is not a recent legislation. My German mother is staying with me at the moment. Please god they let her back in. She is crashingly rude. And has no sense of humour. Because she's German (her words, btw).

Yikes! This is the sort of thing people should sort between themselves first isn’t it. A place to avoid 👀

🤣 Maybe they do need these rules over there then!

I've been in Germany 23 years now.

Many many things do NOT work or are super inefficient.

People are, in general, NOT polite and kind.

To be fair, the set of social rules are different than in the English speaking world. For example, it's not considered rude to walk through a door and let it slam shut in the face of whoever is following you, but you definitely should say Guten Tag and Auf Wiedersehen when entering and leaving a doctor's waiting room if other people are present.

Jaywalking is a particular issue for Germans.
The idea is that you are setting a dangerous precedent for children . They start school at 6 years old, in cities there are enough primary schools that for most they are within a 10 minute walk from home, and they are expected almost immediately to make their own way to and from school - as well as to roam pretty freely in general. At the same time, it's considered that they probably won't have a good enough judgement of traffic and vehicle speed to be entirely safe crossing roads, and it is therefore considered an adult responsibility to model good behaviour in crossing roads so that they won't copy your bad habits.

In Berlin, at least, many people ARE walking around with a lot of bottled up rage.
As an example: nowadays people mostly buy public transport tickets online on their mobile phone, or have a monthly ticket. However, back in the day the only option was to buy a ticket from a machine and they were S-L-O-W. The number of people I've seen kicking the machines cause it made them miss their train... And that was usually on bog standard public transport where the next train would be along in a few minutes.

That said, the number of people I've seen providing assistance - medical and otherwise - in public over the years is also high. From litter picking to providing CPR to helping mothers with baby carriages negotiating stairs, that's all there too.

lol lol 😂

Generally Germans and Europeans in general are a lot less repressed.

Abrupt and direct yes, sweary or insulting no.

Random old women will happily tell you off extensively in public for jaywalking (particularly if you have a child with you). People will give you random unsolicited “helpful” advice. They won’t tell you you’re a fucking idiot, or ask what the fucking hell you are playing at, or complain your car almost fucking hit them, because that would be Very Rude.

Canadians are very similar.

It sounds to me like you are the one confused?

I didn’t say it’s not okay to insult someone of colour or with a disability - I meant using racist/disablist slurs is if course reasonable.

Not being able to call someone an arsehole (regardless of colour, disability etc) if they behave like one is not okay. Not being able to vent to a friend in WhatsApp about someone is not okay.

Agreeing with @Anarchy99 but I think their reply got a bit mixed up.

You can call a black/disabled/old/trans/female/gay person stupid. That's a comment on their lack of sense.

You can't (legally) insult someone based on their protected characteristic, insulting the characteristic itself. As you rightly say, this applies even if you don't know they have that characteristic - or if they haven't, but you thought they had.

So if you need to call a disabled person stupid, do that. No need to call anyone a stupid cripple.

My former arsehole German partner didn't ever want to move back to Germany because of laws like that. There are all sorts, regarding acceptable hedge cutting for example, and lawn mowing. The kind of things you'd hope that considerate people would do on their own, but in Germany are actually legislated for.

And as an aside, in Germany I have encountered some of the most startling rudeness ever!

Exactly. I've certainly used the finger on a few men when I've been abroad - when they've propositioned me in the street. In the UK I've occasionally used the V sign against someone who's hooted at me in a minor road rage incident. If I did either of those things in Germany the other person could report me to the police and I could be prosecuted for it. And if you lose your cool in a work meeting or in the pub and call the other person "an idiot" - you could at least in theory find yourself in prison. Potentially for up to 2 years, as you'd have insulted that person in a group setting.
I found out about this law listening to a German podcast. They were discussing an extension of the law, which means that if you insult a politician (rather than just anyone), then that can be dealt with more seriously. For instance, the politician doesn't have to report it, the police can just take action on their own initiative, and I think the punishment is worse. If I understood the German correctly, there's an ongoing case in which a man used a mild insult in criticising a politician and is being prosecuted. So that's a whole other debate.

I love Germany - great place and people. I think there’s a big difference between having an expressive face and eye rolling, which is clearly rude. Sounds like the bare minimum of decent human behaviour expectations to me.

But at least in England (there's the draconian Hate Crime Act in Scotland, which complicates matters), you can make racist or disablist comment without committing a criminal offence. That doesn't mean it's reasonable to do so, just that it's not a crime.

England much, much better than Germany, for real

In my opinion, rudeness shouldn't be deal with via criminal proceedings and punishments. That's an enormous restriction of free speech.

You realise this is absolute bollocks?

Free speech isn’t without responsibility. No one in Germany is actually going to prison for calling someone an idiot (although interestingly it’s one of the banned insults in my home for my dc) but it gives more robust response to calling out aggressive behaviour. No one should have to endure having eye rolls and insults in their work place. There are ways to complain that don’t involve personal insults and aggression.

Apparently Germany is what the Germans call a "service desert" - there is terrible customer service Germany-wide, apparently. Maybe this law has got something to do with that. It makes it very difficult to criticise or complain, certainly in the heat of the moment.