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How is it possible to be worth a trillion?

208 replies

aurpod1980 · Yesterday 21:40

Is it just utter madness that one man can be worth a trillion dollars ? $1000 billion Wtaf

OP posts:
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6
ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · Today 13:47

cloudtreecarpet · Today 12:56

Really?
No feelings of guilt at amassing such wealth in a world where deprivation and extreme poverty still exists? Even in your own country?

I would like to have it so I could do something very worthwhile with it and I would enjoy giving the majority of it away but I certainly wouldn't want to just sit with it.

I didn’t say that at all.

I said I’d be ok with that sort of wealth. But, i wouldn’t sit about my mansion like Scrooge McDuck.

There’s plenty of philanthropic work that I would get involved with.

JimBobsWife · Today 13:47

KateSixer · Today 13:28

But he's not being "rewarded" in that sense is he? Not in the sense that you might get a bonus at work for a successful project?

The trillion dollar figure comes about because other people (for instance the people who are managing your pension pot) are buying shares in SpaceX at a price that (if you multiply the shares Musk himself already owns by that price) creates that number.

So this thread is all about Musk, but the trillion dollar figure is actually a product of what third party investors value his companies at.

I understand that. My comment was in response to someone who seemed to be suggesting that it was ok to try and achieve things but that being a trillionaire was not ok.

I am trying to understand where people draw the line.

overunderover · Today 13:56

He's a scumbag racist and a revolting specimen of humanity. To be clear to those praising his business acumen and blaming all this on jealousy: I don't hate him any MORE now that he's a trillionaire than I did before.

I am however that bit more afraid of him. As anyone should be who's been paying attention to the toxic combination of extreme wealth and far right politics over the last decade or so.

cloudtreecarpet · Today 13:56

JimBobsWife · Today 13:47

I understand that. My comment was in response to someone who seemed to be suggesting that it was ok to try and achieve things but that being a trillionaire was not ok.

I am trying to understand where people draw the line.

I think one day in the future a line might be drawn, maybe not in my lifetime, but I don't think subsequent generations are going to revere and obsess about money in the same way as happens now.

I think societies will ultimately be organised differently as fewer and fewer people amass more & more of the wealth & resources.
People already talk about "end stage capitalism".
Something else will come at some point and will probably have to.

SpottyAlpaca · Today 13:57

Musk is very rich, obviously, but the trillionaire status is just a nominal paper fortune, not liquid assets in the sense that ordinary people would understand wealth. It’s the nominal value of his shareholdings in Tesla, SpaceX etc at the current market price. A market which almost everyone agrees is in a massive, unsustainable bubble.

He wouldn’t be able to sell anything other than a tiny fraction of those shares without triggering massive loss of market confidence in the business and consequent collapse in the share price and with it the value of his paper fortune. Equally, he can’t resign as CEO of either business for the same reasons.

JimBobsWife · Today 13:58

cloudtreecarpet · Today 13:56

I think one day in the future a line might be drawn, maybe not in my lifetime, but I don't think subsequent generations are going to revere and obsess about money in the same way as happens now.

I think societies will ultimately be organised differently as fewer and fewer people amass more & more of the wealth & resources.
People already talk about "end stage capitalism".
Something else will come at some point and will probably have to.

Where do you draw the line now?

cloudtreecarpet · Today 14:08

JimBobsWife · Today 13:58

Where do you draw the line now?

I don't actually think billionaires need to exist nor should exist. That's a thousand million & is more money than someone could actually spend in their lifetime.

But everyone's view of money is so distorted now that ordinary people seem to see being a billionaire as attainable for anyone so I do recognise that drawing the line there might actually be a disincentive - even though the vast majority have no hope of ever getting to that level of wealth.

BorgQueen · Today 14:18

It’s not like he has it all in gold bullion stashed in a Swiss vault or owns an art collection to rival the National Gallery 🙄
It’s a made up valuation of his companies and as such it could all disappear tomorrow, Tesla very nearly went under a few years ago, it’s monopoly money at the whims of the stock markets.
He employs thousands of people and is a visionary at the forefront of the modern world.

You can’t underestimate the importance of Starlink, it accounts for 75% of satellites in orbit.
Musk isn’t a danger to the World like Gates is.

Whosthetabbynow · Today 14:20

I’d be embarrassed to have that much.

randomchap · Today 14:21

BorgQueen · Today 14:18

It’s not like he has it all in gold bullion stashed in a Swiss vault or owns an art collection to rival the National Gallery 🙄
It’s a made up valuation of his companies and as such it could all disappear tomorrow, Tesla very nearly went under a few years ago, it’s monopoly money at the whims of the stock markets.
He employs thousands of people and is a visionary at the forefront of the modern world.

You can’t underestimate the importance of Starlink, it accounts for 75% of satellites in orbit.
Musk isn’t a danger to the World like Gates is.

You must have missed how Musk's Doge destroyed USAID and caused the deaths of half a million children.

6ate9 · Today 14:22

Perhaps we should live in a communist society so no one can be rich or poor. Never seems to work though!!

user1476613140 · Today 14:25

Nesbi · Today 11:32

The idea that the billionaire class are merely creating wealth rather than capturing it from others doesn’t match the reality, and sounds more like spin from the media outlets they control.

Go back to 1989 and look at the wealth held by the top 200 wealthiest families here in the UK, it was equivalent to 5% of the UK's GDP. Collectively, they could afford to buy 5% of all the goods and services produced in the country in a year.

Today the top 200 families hold the equivalent of about 25% of GDP in wealth. That percentage will keep growing.

The wealth of global billionaires has apparently increased by 40% in just 2 years.

Ordinary people like us will lose around 30-40% of our income to tax, and most of what is left is required to be spent just to survive day to day. If you’re lucky, a very small amount will be saved, or invested.

Billionaires grow their wealth in a system that is designed to protect it, meaning the percentage they pay in tax is far lower than the rest of us. They also can’t possibly spent it on living, even if they do buy themselves half billion dollar boats as toys. So the excess wealth gets used to buy up the things that other people need to use - they buy up companies, they buy up properties, not just residential but they buy the factories, the skyscrapers, the shopping centres, they buy up the natural resources. All the while as they buy up more and more of the world around them, more and more money inevitably flows in their direction.

As they use their wealth to accumulate more assets, the rest of the world is increasingly squeezed out. The rest of us own less and less. Classes of people who used to be able to afford a house now find they can only rent. People who would have owned some shares themselves find they can afford far fewer than before - their share of the wealth gets that much smaller.

People who thought they could live a middle class life wonder why they now struggle so much. Even the wealthy (by most people’s standards) are left wondering why private schooling feels out of reach, or why the skiing holiday has had to move from the French alps to Bulgaria!

It is like watching the gravitational pull of a black hole - the wealth of the billionaires is dragging more and more wealth upwards through society and relentlessly towards them. That is why it grows so much quicker than GDP - they are not just creating it, they are taking it.

It is going to happen at a faster and faster rate. I wonder at what point will the rest of us will decide that enough is enough, that society can’t function like this.

Seriously, you need to write a book. I'll buy it🫶

StandingDeskDisco · Today 14:30

KateSixer · Yesterday 22:06

TBF it's mostly calculated as his percentage ownership of his various companies based on the value others apply to those shares. So it's not all in $ bills. But he's rich yes.

But isn't he also the most remarkable person of his generation? Starlink and SpaceX are totally innovative.

If you ever get frustrated at how slow and inefficient the public sector is think about how better and quicker Musk would do it.

Yes he's earned money but he is also a phenomenal innovator and facilitator of tech for the planet.

based on the value others apply to those shares. So it's not all in $ bills

Exactly this.
If there was a stock market crash, or the shares of his companies crashed on the stock market, this 'trillion' would vanish without even a puff of smoke.
It is not real money.

I won't comment on his abilities or actual worth as a human being, except to say that the fantasy of colonising Mars is just insane - a total pipe dream.

GeneralPeter · Today 14:31

cloudtreecarpet · Today 14:08

I don't actually think billionaires need to exist nor should exist. That's a thousand million & is more money than someone could actually spend in their lifetime.

But everyone's view of money is so distorted now that ordinary people seem to see being a billionaire as attainable for anyone so I do recognise that drawing the line there might actually be a disincentive - even though the vast majority have no hope of ever getting to that level of wealth.

If you are applying that to paper wealth though, that means forcing the most successful entrepreneurs to divest in their firms at an early(-ish) stage, ie before the founder’s stake reaches a billion, and hand them over to some form of market or public ownership.

My fear is that public ownership (in either sense) would simply not help those ideas succeed.

Some firms destroy social value but most firms that become massive do so by creating something lots of the people value highly, ie by making life better.

JimBobsWife · Today 14:33

user1476613140 · Today 14:25

Seriously, you need to write a book. I'll buy it🫶

Billionaires aren’t taking wealth in the way PP describes. A weaker economy allows people with assets to get richer and those relying on cash wages to get poorer. Asset prices frequently rise as central banks respond to crises by lowering interest rates.

JimBobsWife · Today 14:39

GeneralPeter · Today 14:31

If you are applying that to paper wealth though, that means forcing the most successful entrepreneurs to divest in their firms at an early(-ish) stage, ie before the founder’s stake reaches a billion, and hand them over to some form of market or public ownership.

My fear is that public ownership (in either sense) would simply not help those ideas succeed.

Some firms destroy social value but most firms that become massive do so by creating something lots of the people value highly, ie by making life better.

This is similar to what happens in the UK where we have plenty of talent but not enough investment. So UK entrepreneurs sell out to US investors, such as DeepMind selling to Google in 2014.

The US economy is boosted by the ideas of others around the world, not by native inventors. This is a problem for the UK economy.

There would need to be a global agreement to limit growth of successful companies otherwise some countries will always produce trillionaires.

Forcing successful creators to hand their assets to the state has already been attempted in several communist states and always ended up with greater poverty for all.

missmollygreen · Today 14:42

Whosthetabbynow · Today 14:20

I’d be embarrassed to have that much.

I presume you donate all of your excess money to various charities then? As you find having more than you need so embarrassing?

AntikytheraMech · Today 14:47

He is undoubtedly brilliant.
Also has a great sense of humour.
Hat off to him. In this country it seems that people that do well are looked down upon by people that have done nothing of worth in their life.
His name will be remembered.
Will yours?

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · Today 14:48

AntikytheraMech · Today 14:47

He is undoubtedly brilliant.
Also has a great sense of humour.
Hat off to him. In this country it seems that people that do well are looked down upon by people that have done nothing of worth in their life.
His name will be remembered.
Will yours?

Hitler's name is remembered. It isn't always something to aspire to.

6ate9 · Today 14:49

missmollygreen · Today 14:42

I presume you donate all of your excess money to various charities then? As you find having more than you need so embarrassing?

Exactly!!! People always want OTHER people to give away their money so they don’t have to!!!

We only NEED enough money for basic survival, everything else is luxury!!!

KateSixer · Today 14:52

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · Today 14:48

Hitler's name is remembered. It isn't always something to aspire to.

Just awesome to see Godwins Law in operation.

Do Google it if you don't know what I mean.

AntikytheraMech · Today 14:53

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · Today 14:48

Hitler's name is remembered. It isn't always something to aspire to.

For god's sake. Apparently many internet discussions drop into this old old tired trope.

category12 · Today 14:54

It's disgusting.

Can only hope he develops a taste for submarining.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · Today 14:57

KateSixer · Today 14:52

Just awesome to see Godwins Law in operation.

Do Google it if you don't know what I mean.

I know what it means but the point still stands.

If you don't like the reference to Hitler, you can substitute it for Polpot or Mussolini or many others.

Sparklybanana · Today 15:01

Because once you have money - it's really, really easy to make more.
Bezos's ex wife made it her mission to give away her divorce settlement and shes given away billions. Shes now richer than she was at the start. So yes - it's been incredibly easy for him to double his money without that much effort.

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