to be seriously concerned about the illegal surveillance cameras and flags on lamp posts?

[Kije]

That's it, really. I live in a semi-rural area. No racial tensions locally, that I'm aware of, at all. The local small market town and surrounding roads are covered, and I do mean covered, in illegally posted flags, all over lamp posts - sometimes three deep. They come down (the local council sometimes stirs themselves to take them down) and are replaced within a few hours. It's been like this since late last summer.

And now the same charming people who are trying to intimidate what they like to call 'pathetic lefties' have put up dozens of surveillance cameras on the same lamp posts, aimed in all directions in a clear attempt to intimidate local people who'd like to take the flags down. The mob who do the flags have said on their own FB site, it's to 'protect their property' (eg the flags they've illegally stuck up lamp posts, it's essentially littering). The obvious take-home is, they think this is their town and they aim to create a chilling effect for anyone who dares to discuss this on local social media, or take the flags down again.

The flags are illegal: the cameras doubly so, I'd have thought, given privacy laws?? Or at least, I'm assuming surveillance cameras mounted on public property and aimed at pedestrians and drivers have to be done by a legitimate authority.

I look at what was happening in Belfast (and elsewhere) last night and honestly, I'm terrified for our country. We seem to be sliding into lawlessness and vigilantism, and blatant intimidation of anyone who speaks out against it.

You’ve missed the point entirely to the level you now look a bit silly.

Nobody has said anything that would induce me to change my position.

I’m always open to debate but the blind prejudice and negative stereotyping I’ve seen in this thread makes me think it’s not going to happen here. Have a good evening.

What a charming way with words you have.

And obviously flying the English flag is so much worse than trying to behead someone on the street.

It is so ‘thuggish’ to climb a ladder and raise a flag as a means of protesting against a government that vilifies and discriminates against you.

Let’s definitely not talk about the higher rates of serious violence that the BBC has reported in men from a certain list of countries - we can’t possibly admit that the current immigration policies are not working.

It is so ‘thuggish’ to climb a ladder and raise a flag as a means of protesting against a government that vilifies and discriminates against you

Why use a national flag to protest against a govt you don’t like? Were “lefties” raising flags to protest against the conservative govt? Course they weren’t. Vilifies, discriminates; bollocks. Stop watching Geebeebies.

It’s thuggish to place cameras on lampposts when the implication is that anyone covertly and unlawfully recorded removing said flags will be violently assaulted, wouldn’t you say? Do you not agree? That is the subject of the OP

Because that’s what the cameras are for. And you know it.

The original thugs ....https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32538487

Very unlikely to be white supremacists really.

Nothing is stopping them from flying their own flag on their own property.

Equally people can fly Pride flags on their own property, but in our town they hung banners everywhere and rainbow’d everything with chalks. Do you disapprove of that?

There’s a handful on my town that will be there for a month. Literally, a few

Huge swathes of the estates near me are covered in (now) tatty Union flags and England flags and will remain there for months/years.

Slightly different but obviously you know this deep down

Well again it's about the intention isn't it really? Were they intended to intimidate people? Did they intimindate people? Might the people who hung them have been open to considering taking them down if that was the evidenced effect? I would hope so. No one who has defended the flags has expressed the slightest concern for people who have been frightened by the protests and rallies and flags, or even the violence that is erupting now. Which I would have thought would at least factor into the conversation if it were genuine.

Was that for a special parade to celebrate inclusion and unity? They probably had permission from the council too.

It’s completely different than hanging them permanently to cause as much threat and tension as possible.

In any case I read the OP as saying flags are one thing, that's plus cameras are another.

Why use a national flag to protest against a govt you don’t like?

Why not? Our national identity is under threat from the type of government ministers who are more focused on criticising an MP for referring to brutal practices common in Sudan as ‘alien culture’ then addressing the consequences of that alien culture being brought up a largely peaceful high trust society. Our flag is an appropriate symbol for that protest.

Vilifies, discriminates; bollocks. Stop watching Geebeebies.

I don’t watch GB News (I assume that’s what you mean?) I watched speeches and read the sm posts from our soon to be former Prime Minister. I take it you don’t listen to him.

Because that’s what the cameras are for. And you know it.

No I don’t. That’s your nasty prejudice speaking and a sweeping generalisation. I avoid making negative generalisations about entire groups. You should try it.

Fascinating history, thanks for sharing.

But it's not one man if you read the article. It's the whole campaign. It's a far right white nationalist campaign organised by far right white nationalists.

You're well aware of this.

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

Why not?!?

Because the majority of people do not agree with your stance! And if that is evidently the case, you should not be hijacking what should be a symbol of unity to further your own rather basic shall we say cause. God it’s like banging your head up against a walll! You don’t speak for me. Stop using my flag! OUR FLAG!

National identity under threat do get a grip dear. Yes, there was a horrific attack the other day but you are being dishonest with your statement. Our flag-it’s my flag too. Why do you and your minority think you can speak about using our national flag for your essentially small minded views. You don’t have that right.

No I don’t. That’s your nasty prejudice
oh fgs what do you think they’re for
ill help you; its so anyone caught on camera taking down shagged flags will get violently assaulted. What on earth are the purposes of these cameras for then, Einstein?

Why do you keep telling me what I know? - you keep getting it wrong.

The headline you shared names one man. One man with a conviction. You have been trying to imply that everyone putting up a flag is like him but have not provided any evidence of this or the extent of this ‘whole campaign’.

The BBC reports that it is some quite disparate groups with a range of motivations.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx271162ee3o?app-referrer=deep-link

But you’ve decided that you know each and every persons motivation and that it’s definitely the worst possible one and you want to tar everyone with the same brush. This is part of the problem.

You seem to want to focus on silencing the people highlighting the problem instead of acknowledging there is a problem. At least people high up in government are starting to find their voices and admit it.

Shame. I'm sure you'd have been nodding your head in agreement had I used a different word.

Well, increasing the number of dangerous men in the country is unlikely to help.

Yes you can film in public and yes there's obviously a LOT if cctv but I dont believe you can record with fixed camera except on your property.
My car was vandalised when parked round the gable end of our street. There is a street that overlooks that road but cameras would only be recording the street and not the person's property. Im sure the police said it was illegal to record in public unless it included your property ie front garden and then 'some' of the road/ footpath.
I dont believe Joe public can put them up for ANY reason.

Because the majority of people do not agree with your stance!

PP was claiming it’s a far reaching national campaign and nobody can move for flags. make your mind up.

And if that is evidently the case, you should not be hijacking what should be a symbol of unity to further your own rather basic shall we say cause. God it’s like banging your head up against a walll! You don’t speak for me. Stop using my flag! OUR FLAG!

I don’t know why you are attacking me - I haven’t put any flags up. It is a symbol of unity. Anyone who likes and respects British and British values should be pleased to associate with our flag - not find it intimidating. The only people I’ve seen conflating it with racism are you and people like OP.

I’m not really sure what you want here - are saying that no one can fly our flag? Or only people whose views and politics you approve of should be allowed?

Why do you and your minority think you can speak about using our national flag for your essentially small minded views. You don’t have that right.

You don’t even know what my views are but go off with more insults. And yes I do have that right.

its so anyone caught on camera taking down shagged flags will get violently assaulted. What on earth are the purposes of these cameras for then, Einstein?

I think you are getting a bit carried away. There are many purposes for placing cameras other than violently assaulting people.

What do you think they are going to do, watch hours of footage and then walk around the city trying to find the person who took them down to ‘violently assault’ them? If someone was talking about any other group with such prejudiced and unfounded accusations I’m you would be up in arms but for some reason you are happy to dish it out against this group and me.

Not the point of the thread I know but I'm really intrigued as to how the cameras are powered?

I support your right to set your own level of awareness.

Of course they can. Somebody installed a camera near here so the town could watch some rare nesting birds.

The council can of course take them down if they wish. But there’s a reason there hasn’t been a single prosecution regarding the flags, because while a few nonspecific laws regarding data protection and highways have been bandied around here, they are not going to be used for this purpose. They were created for other purposes and tbh they have better things to do than drag somebody through the courts for attaching our national flag to a lamppost.

I’ve worked in local authority previously including using the Highways Act for removal of items left in public areas. Even then it was a very long process and ultimately is just about securing court approval for the removal, and giving the owner a warning to dispose of it themselves first, rather than being punitive. Mostly it related to abandoned cars, fly tipped items and so on.

Of course, I’ll be told how very wrong I am and that the person who put it up will be facing jail time for GDPR infringements etc…

The only group they’re legislating on is transgender people, and yet everyone here seems perfectly comfortable with that?