to be seriously concerned about the illegal surveillance cameras and flags on lamp posts?

[Kije]

That's it, really. I live in a semi-rural area. No racial tensions locally, that I'm aware of, at all. The local small market town and surrounding roads are covered, and I do mean covered, in illegally posted flags, all over lamp posts - sometimes three deep. They come down (the local council sometimes stirs themselves to take them down) and are replaced within a few hours. It's been like this since late last summer.

And now the same charming people who are trying to intimidate what they like to call 'pathetic lefties' have put up dozens of surveillance cameras on the same lamp posts, aimed in all directions in a clear attempt to intimidate local people who'd like to take the flags down. The mob who do the flags have said on their own FB site, it's to 'protect their property' (eg the flags they've illegally stuck up lamp posts, it's essentially littering). The obvious take-home is, they think this is their town and they aim to create a chilling effect for anyone who dares to discuss this on local social media, or take the flags down again.

The flags are illegal: the cameras doubly so, I'd have thought, given privacy laws?? Or at least, I'm assuming surveillance cameras mounted on public property and aimed at pedestrians and drivers have to be done by a legitimate authority.

I look at what was happening in Belfast (and elsewhere) last night and honestly, I'm terrified for our country. We seem to be sliding into lawlessness and vigilantism, and blatant intimidation of anyone who speaks out against it.

I didn't bother reading after that point.

Illegal flags! I didn’t know we had illegal flags which ones are you referring to? All types of life have flags up where I live …

My point is that the flags are intended to intimidate non-white people. They are being used to fuel hate and division. To say ‘meh they are just flags’ is standing idly by while one group of human beings is made to live in fear.

Trans people say that about the suffragette flag though. We can’t ban our national flag because it causes offence, that would be madness and very 1984. The St George Flag was ‘racist’ in the 1980s, it was racist in the 1990s, it was racist in the 2000s, it was racist in the 2010s during the Brexit campaign; and apparently it’s racist now. So when will people be able to fly it without hordes of people taking to the internet to say how intimidating it is?

If the British flags are intimidating then it stands to reason that the Palestine flags are intimidating for Jews and should also be removed?

Well, it had to be done otherwise we'd have been showering with biological men.

My point is ‘it’s not just a flag’ in response to other posts. And it shouldn’t be dismissed. It’s racism.

Do I think that flags should be banned? No. Don’t be daft.

Do I think that putting flags on public property to intimidate certain groups of society should be stopped? Yes.

So you agree intimidatory flags should be removed - so also the Palestine flags too, which have been put up in Jewish areas and used to intimidate?

That'll look lovely

But some people argue this is discriminatory, disproportionate and that trans people are no more likely to commit certain types of offences than anyone else. The same arguments really.

There’s also the question of criminal damage. I wouldn’t do it. I would complain to the council and ask for them to be removed.

Be a shame if a rumour started that the cameras were filming kids for dodgy reasons. If there's something they hate more than foreigners its nonces.

Your country's flag is illegal ?

So those of us that find the Union flag intimidating and have to run the gauntlet day in and day out have to just suck it up. There are loads of them it’s like a corridor of flags for quite some way on a major entrance into the city I enter every day. They’ve been there so long they’re now ripping. We even had an individual attaching them across motor way bridges marching along with a massive one in his hand.I don’t know anybody who likes them or wants them. Why do we have to them and suck up the unpleasant politics that come with them just because somebody is throwing a tantrum. If these were pride flags some members of society would have combusted by now and ripped them down.

I don’t disagree but to apply an anti flag rule fairly you would have to agree the Palestine flags should also be taken down?

I’ve not seen a single one where I live and definitely not along this road or motorways. Nowhere. It costs our council £500 a flag to remove them. Why aren’t they being removed once and for all and individuals arrested and charged to recover costs?

There are several up here.

What would you be arresting them for? If you arrest somebody it has to be under a specific Act. Which law would you propose has been broken?

Under the Highways Act 1980, our authority could take action to recover the operation's cost from people responsible for erecting the flags without authorisation. I want to know why they haven’t.

Lol. Is there fluoride in your water English ?

We’ve been through this. I spent some time at local authority using this Act to remove dumped items, including cars and fly tipped boats and huge items. Nobody was arrested, and the Act wouldn’t extend to flags on lampposts. It’s mainly a procedure used to obtain a court order for disposal once the person has been given every opportunity to remove it themselves, often months.

It’s isn’t the fix you think it is.

The applies act 1980 directly to flags on lamp posts. Under Section 132 of the Act, it is an offence to affix any item (including flags, banners, or signs) to structures on a public highway—such as lamp posts and road signs—without the explicit consent of the local highway authority.

Nobody wants them, they shouldn’t be there, they’re an eyesore and the mentality behind the hanging of them is deeply unpleasant. We’re paying our council taxes and shouldn’t have to tolerate them.

Using the act to recover costs of removal at the very least would deter at £500 a flag.

The act says ‘sign, picture, letter or mark’. You could include flags in this I suppose but given posters, graffiti, birthday banners etc are all out there in abundance you can see how flags are simply not going to become an urgent offence. The LA will take them down at some point, like they did here, and that’s that. It’s highly unlikely they will spend time ‘investigating’ who did it.

They would have to find out who put them up first. With dumped cars, it’s easy, you can find out via the number plate. I doubt anyone is going to use police time launching an investigation into who put up our national flag on a lamppost. The cost of pursuing the action would be in excess of £500 I imagine.

They aren't very bright.

They put up flags wearing balaclavas and ignoring CCTV which might catch them and then think that people taking them down might be put off wearing a balaclava and ignoring the CCTV.

Do we really think they are monitoring them 24/7?

It's actually funny when you think about it.

I think they are properly sad bastards and would leave them to their flags because if they are so busy being flag monitor they can't get up to other shit can they?!

Ours did at a cost of several thousands of pounds that could have been spent on must needed other resources, the selfish individuals then put them back up as they were replacing them.