To think introducing independence at 8/9yo isn't neglectful?

[popocatepetlgoesboom]

My eldest is 9 (y4), I want to prepare him for being independent. He can walk/cycle to school on his own and goes to the corner shop on his own for errands. I don't let him play out or go to the park without me, but once there he will roam about with known adults nearby but not in sight.

I played out from 5/6 in a village cul-de-sac with local kids. At 8/9 I was going all over the village. He doesn't have anything like the same freedom I had and I feel guilty about this.

My friends eldest is 8 (y3). We were talking about this and she was shocked. She thinks my approach is unacceptably high risk. Her DS doesn't do anything without heavy supervision. She sees her role to protect from harm as more important than teaching independence.

She's always been more risk averse than me. We both grew up in safe small places, both now live in big cities. She's in a nice leafy area, I'm in a rougher area.

I've always respected her judgement - over the years I've found she is usually right! But I'm not sure this time. Who's right?

It would seem you need to work on your own Independence if a friend saying this has led you to question and doubt how you wish to parent your child

How far away is school?
surprised the school allow this for a 9 yr old tbh

Of course its not neglectful unless you live somewhere dangerous. She might not feel ready for that step yet but it doesn't mean it's too early for your child.

I don't think your friend appreciates the big difference between 8 and 9yo.

When mine was 8yo, I was privately shocked at the independence my friends 9yo had, but I sat with the thoughts and concluded that it was my own fears about snatching and predators that was clouding my thoughts about ever letting my child become independent- it wasn't soecifically the age.

Realistically though, it is a risk at any age and we have to balance fear, likelihood of occurrence and the opportunity to grow and enjoy life.

So maybe she was clumsy but is actually just scared for her own child being ready?

I found that between 8 & 12 parents' views of what they will / will not let their children do vary massively. As such it is always worth checking before letting another parent be responsible for your child.
e.g. regarding walking around the area independently, access to 'over age' films and games, cooking without an adult.

There is quite a big difference between end of Year 3 and end of Year 4 and your friend may not realise how much more capable of independence children are by that stage.
We allowed our daughter to walk home from school in the summer term of Year 4 - the school was fine with this and agreed that it was an appropriate way of building independence (given it was a short walk without any dangerous crossings).
In many countries children walk to school alone from 5 or 6 and parents who want to walk with them are considered a bit odd. The UK has quite an over-protective attitude to children. There's a real problem that parents give too little independence through primary school, and then suddenly when they start Year 7 they are expected to suddenly get around by themselves and cope independently, without building independence in little steps.

I don't think there's anything wrong with what you're doing (I'm assuming there isn't a context like the walk to school is 3 miles long and involves crossing a dual carriageway).

Your friend is entitled to make her own choices, and those aren't 'wrong' either, but she isn't entitled to judge yours, which are valid.

All children are different, all parents are different — there is no wrong or right unless we are talking at extreme ends. I have two 8yr olds and no I wouldn't let them walk to the shops or school by themselves.

School is about 600m with 3 minor roads to cross. He has a younger sibling so we are always there, but he prefers to do his own thing so we aren't usually with him. Likewise, the shop is a similar journey.

If it wasn't for the younger sibling I'd be happy for him to go on his own - TBH its never occurred to me that may be something the school would have to allow rather than it being my decision.

I’m confused - so does he do it alone or does he not?

It’s not just age it’s maturity.
I know kids perfectly able to get themselves to school in Year 5. Others are hopeless even approaching secondary.
I don’t think your approach is bad OP. You are encouraging confidence and self reliance which is good.
I always say safety in numbers so when mine reach that age it would be great if they could walk/play out with a friend.

I think it depends on the 8/9-year-old, but many aren’t quite emotionally developed enough for independence: they can’t regulate impulsiveness, or temptation, or logically think through their next steps if something goes wrong or not to plan (the street is closed and they have to take a diversion; a friend suggests they come a different way; there’s some sort of a kerfuffle on their route. Even when I was in primary school decades ago, the school wouldn’t allow pupils to arrive at or leave school unaccompanied until the summer term of year 6 aged 10/11, so I don’t think it’s entirely a modern concept / being wrapped in cotton wool.

ETA: I think it is somewhat different in small villages, as village-dwellers tend to be a lot more attuned to local goings-on, notice strangers and strange vehicles, and can pass things on by word of mouth more quickly, which creates a sense of greater safety.

I walk there with his younger sibling at the same time. He is usually separate from us though - e.g. leaves a couple of minutes earlier if he's ready, chooses a different route, falls in with friends, or whizzes off if he's cycling. Same on the way home.

Agreed. Mine are now young adults but their primary school (a decade ago) would not release children without an adult present. In some cases, if the parents had consented, they would allow a sibling to collect but the sibling had to be in upper school (year 10 and above)

Oh i don’t regard this as independent cycling to and from school. You are basically there! Does your friend know that on this 600m journey you are basically behind him on the same route with his younger brother?!

this is a really hard one and tiny changes can really skew the opinion you will get.

The age of the parent, the age of the child in relation to other children in the same family, the child itself. All play factors.

the older generation of parents will probably say “in my day” and all was ok. Whereas a younger parent will be my hyper aware of danger because of how well we can access information now and it does scare you into thinking somehow the world is worse than it was 20,30,40 years ago. The same dangers were present we just didn’t hear about it as much. there are far more dangers on the internet now than before but as for playing outside is now probably safer as kids have trackers, there is more cctv etc. not saying it’s safe. Just safer technically.

I tend to find a parent who’s already had a child go through this independent stage is a little more relaxed and lets things happen a little sooner with subsequent children.

but I think the most important thing is the individual child. There are 9 year olds that are sensible, street smart, aware of dangers etc and there are 9 year olds barely wiping their own ass so to speak. Only you can judge your own child’s ability to be safe.

my opinion as someone who has children ranging from 4-16 is - 9 seems a little young to be out alone. In our school you cannot walk alone until you are in yr 5. I personally allowed my kids to start walking from year 6 and we only lived a 5 minute walk from the school. They started playing out in year 6 also and that is when I allowed them to walk to the shop alone.

we don’t know how far the school is, 2 minute walk or 10 minute bike. Big difference. Same with shops. Same with crime in the area. Village cul-de-sac is totally different to a big city.

What exactly is your friend worried about. There are a lot of different dangers - crossing the road, stranger danger, other kids. Does your child know what to do if he ever felt threatened in a situation. Does he have a phone to call you? Would he be easily led by other kids to go off and do something stupid or impulsive. Is the route to school safe as in low/no traffic, paths, safe crossings etc. is the route busy with people, shops, lots of other school children were strangers have less opportunity to see your child alone? Way too many variable factors to consider to really put in a worthy opinion. I think promoting independence and encouraging outdoor play is great. I also think 9 is probably on the younger side to start it. I would have given it another year. I also think all these dangers don’t go away when they hit 11,12,13. So it’s hard to say

I had no supervision when I was 8, allowed to go round town wherever I liked and whenever I liked really. The first time I got sexually assaulted by a stranger on the street was when I was 8, walked past a (possibly drunk?) man sitting on the pavement, he put his hand up my skirt and tugged at my underwear. I ran away.

I suppose that won't happen to a boy though.

Your son is probably very ready for independence. It's other people you have to worry about. Just because our parents didn't give a shit doesnt mean they were right.

There's huge variation about what parents allow at these ages - as PP have said.

Depends on area routes, school expectations, and child in question.

I let DD1 go in at 9 one morning a week at first primary - as had three different start times for various reasons and not enough time to get back home between menaing youngest would be out 45 minutes in cold. That was fine till someone at school near end of year suddenly decided it wasn't. She didn't walk in her by herself here after move till secondary - because route here meant cross a duel carriage way and was much longer - so she walked in with rest of us.

The major risk for children now is vehicles on the road. I think it's not reasonable to compare with childhood 30, 40, 50 years ago because the volume of traffic on the roads is so much greater and cars are bigger and more dangerous to pedestrians. Parents' views on the risks will vary, as will their kids' ability to judge when it's safe to cross. It also depends on the particularities of the area. In my neighbourhood there are some places where there is no pavement or the pavement is very narrow, which means it doesn't feel safe for children.

What you're doing isn't unreasonable at all - you probably feel confident with the general safety of the area and your kid's road sense, but your friend has made a different judgement which is fine. I think independence is hugely important for children, but it can sometimes be quite difficult to give them the independence we enjoyed.

Both my DC walked to and from school alone (15 min walk or so), aged 8. Many of their friends did as well, and yes we do live in a village. They learn a lot in doing so, my DS1 made the right choice the day there was an unexpected cow in the field he had to cross, and turned around and walked the long way rather than push past! He didn't know if it was a cow or a bull and wasn't risking anything 😁

My 10 year now has a lot of freedom to roam, and yes I do rely to an extent on other people having eyes on him (neighbours, other parents, just people around). It's a calculated risk but one with huge benefits

I suppose my approach has been to gradually try to teach these skills over the last few years - with appropriate support. DS was rubbish to start with but now knows how to deal with some of this stuff because I've put him in situations where he has to think about it.

Thinking about my friends son, he's had very little chance to learn the same stuff so far, despite living somewhere where I reckon it would be a bit easier to introduce it.

This for sure. If there's anything I'm not sure about I would check (leaving my daughter and a friend home alone briefly at 12, going into town on their own, etc)

I trend towards independence - my son was walking the mile to school on his own at 8 but he was the first in his class, my daughter takes herself to ballet class but most other kids are dropped off (changing now she's 13), I don't really care about music much. But I care a LOT about violent video games and bedtime and I would say most of my son's friends don't really feel the same. So there will always be differences and it's not linear.

I don't think anyone is really wrong or right - a lot of these decisions will have impacts far, far in the future and it's impossible to know which decisions will mean the most in 5-10-20 years. You can only use your best judgement knowing your kid, your neighbourhood and what you can live with if something were to happen.

It did actually blow my mind last night - took my son to a trial at an athletics club. He's 9 (turning 10 next week) so they had him in the 10-14 group. We got there and no one introduced themselves or anything and my son just ran off into the neighbourhood with a bunch of strangers. Realised as I watched him go that no one had any idea how to contact me or if he had any health issues or anything. All was fine but it was a massive difference to any of the other clubs my kids have done so definitely gave me some food for thought!

What a storm on a tea cup

he rides the 600m to school
meanwhile you and his younger brother walk the same route behind him

It’s like people saying about their kids being able to be left at home at x age, saying they’d be able to deal with anything that happens. The thing is even an adult wouldn’t be able to deal with anything hugely out of the ordinary, any of the freak incidents that occur!

On the walking to school thing I’ve beeped young kids who were walking behind cars reversing, or seen bikes heading towards the road when cycling on the path. I’ve seen dogs roaming and myself and another dad once stopped a group of lads hassling a very young lad walking on his own.

Calling it neglectful to me is ridiculous but having your kids do things on their own age 8/9/10/11 - I just don’t get that people pat themselves on the back about it- a lot of the kids’ independence that I’ve introduced is sadly because working ft hasn’t allowed me the luxury of staying home with them when they were off/ sick as teens/ that I couldn’t drop/ collect. They’ve always been fine but to me it’s not good that there wasn’t someone there for them

I don't disagree! But its been a great stepping stone for him to learn how to do it, sort out his bike, lock it up etc, deal with cars and pedestrians doing unexpected things, and I'd now be happy for him to do it without me there.

My friend knows this and has a set up where she could do something similar and would be shocked at the idea of it.

There are benefits to closer supervision and there are benefits to independence. Neither is inherently better or worse.

It’s really common in the summer to see a child on a bike, wearing a helmet 👍 and one on the handle bars or back with no head protection. I often see young dc cycling along the wrong side of the road, or cutting through the middle of a junction on a right hand turn. These are decisions which make perfect sense to a child. As an adult it really bothers me to witness this stuff and have no way to let the caring adults in their lives know.

I think if you want to support independence, it would be wise to follow at a distance sometimes or turn up unexpectedly now and then. If they’re walking to school, you could let other dps know you’re open to hearing about anything concerning because they probably may hesitate to tell you or interfere.