To think introducing independence at 8/9yo isn't neglectful?

[popocatepetlgoesboom]

My eldest is 9 (y4), I want to prepare him for being independent. He can walk/cycle to school on his own and goes to the corner shop on his own for errands. I don't let him play out or go to the park without me, but once there he will roam about with known adults nearby but not in sight.

I played out from 5/6 in a village cul-de-sac with local kids. At 8/9 I was going all over the village. He doesn't have anything like the same freedom I had and I feel guilty about this.

My friends eldest is 8 (y3). We were talking about this and she was shocked. She thinks my approach is unacceptably high risk. Her DS doesn't do anything without heavy supervision. She sees her role to protect from harm as more important than teaching independence.

She's always been more risk averse than me. We both grew up in safe small places, both now live in big cities. She's in a nice leafy area, I'm in a rougher area.

I've always respected her judgement - over the years I've found she is usually right! But I'm not sure this time. Who's right?

DD1 is 7 and we are starting to give her some more independence with certain things, like we will walk home and at a certain point she’s allowed to go off ahead and get herself home across a couple of very quiet roads with me a minute or two behind. She will go up to counters and order for herself, if she’s out with little sister she will take charge in checking for traffic on the quiet roads, preparing her own breakfast and packing most of her own lunch, chopping fruit and veg. etc. I think there’s a lot that can be done in these gradual and small changes and responsibilities rather than it having to be anything dramatic.

That said, she’s a sensible child. One of her friends in particular i wouldn’t let out of my sight when out of the house, she has no road sense.

I think older siblings often are a bit more independent because they have had to be. My nearly three year old still won’t go into soft play alone, whereas her brother had to because I couldn’t really cart a newborn in!

There is no rush. Personally I am glad my children aren’t having a childhood like mine! But equally I do see the downsides. Like many things it’s a balance. I don’t want to push mine into independence early but I also don’t like the way anxiety in mothers is sometimes shown to be evidence of loving care.

Also I am a Girlguiding leader and building independence is a core part of what we do, so girls quite often have experiences and opportunities for independence that they wouldn’t get at home. I’ve had parents amazed that their 5yo has been chopping vegetables with a knife or helping to light a fire or loads of ‘risky’ stuff because it just hadn’t ever occurred to them this was a thing they could do.

In my village, solo school walks start in y5. Before that they send each child out to their waiting adult on the playground.

I walk with mine in the morning because everyone goes at different times, but DC comes home alone after school, I think the herd of parents and friends walking all together after school and crossing the road at the same time makes this a good slide into more independence.

I agree, and I think it’s when children are out unsupervised with friends it can be more problematic as they can become sillier and more fearless, especially if showing off to each other. I was cycling home the other day along a road with a tight blind bend at one end and just as I reached the bend, a group of young boys on bicycles came swooping around it on the wrong side of the road. Had I been a car, it could have been awful. I told them they needed to be careful, they probably took not a blind bit of notice and laughed behind my back once I was out of sight, and I had no way to feed back to schools or parents.

Our local schools only allow year 6 to walk to and from by themselves.

And my kids have been allowed to use real knives to prepare food etc since being toddlers. It's how they best learn (with constant supervision, explanation and guidance). Now they are competent at cooking and prepping.

They wander everywhere with friends and get buses alone to wherever they fancy etc. They are more capable than we realise, stifling them with lack of trust and growth opportunities doesn't do them any favours.

I can't remember the name, but there was a TV programme a few years back that got children to navigate across London without adult guidance, that showed how capable some kids are.

Ultimately it is up to the parent, though (that’s the pedant in me, sorry.)

It's good to encourage independence but obviously it needs to be risk assessed. I remember watching a programme about what age for independence. Some things, like handle a sharp knife to cut up apple etc can be taught around 4 to 5 years old. Other things like crossing a road and judging the speed of a car to know if you had time to cross was around 10 to 11 years old.

This is interesting - one of the things my friend said was that her DS learns independence from the extracurricular stuff he does, so she thinks that ticks that box and doesn't need to put him in the more risky situations which I use (her view!). He does scouts (or whatever the equivalent is for 8 year olds).

The impression I got from what what she says about these clubs is that it is still very structured and supervised, mostly crafts and games and at this age the kids have very little opportunity to do any of the more dangerous stuff themselves or make their own decisions.

YANBU.

I guess I'm what people call "free range," on MN but considered entirely normal here in the North West. A lot of it is area dependent.

DD has been playing outside without supervision (although I check on her every 10 minutes or so) from aged 5. I'll probably start allowing her to walk to the park or the village library with a friend from 7/8. We live in a small, quiet village.

Unfortunately, the walk to school isn't well set-up for pedestrians with country roads with no pavements or a very busy main road which she'd need to cross a few times to get to the pavements which are only on one side and annoyingly not the same one the whole way. I probably wouldn't let her walk, and definitely not cycle with the speed the lorries go along the main road, at any age in Primary.

However, the trend of not letting children out at all is hindering them massively and it's a snowball effect. If at the age of 10, your child has never been out of your sight, their peers will be leaps and bounds ahead of them and they aren't going to have the "stepping stones" available to catch up. If your friend's DS isn't allowed to walk to a nearby corner shop, the idea of him soon being ready to cycle to school is going to be wild to her.

There is no right or wrong, it is probably not very dangerous giving your child independence at 9 if they are sensible and understand crossing roads and stranger danger, etc, although them cycling in a busy city would give me nightmares. On the other hand there's nothing wrong with being a bit over protective while they are still quite young.

It varies, I guess. And, it would depend on the environment, location, child's maturity levels etc. I started giving my DC this sort of independence at around 12 and that was about the time his friends' had it too.

I live in one of those countries, very normal for children to walk to school and other places themselves from 6/7 years old (when they start school) so my children have has that independence since that age but we're on holiday in the UK right now and tbh I'm reluctant to let my 8 year old even go to the shop across the road because the traffic is so much worse here, like people drive less carefully - back home (in my town at least) cars will slow down when there's children walking, so they are ready to stop quickly in case a child does something unpredictable and there's zebra crossings everywhere (that drivers actually stop at if someone looks like they're preparing to cross). This may just be an issue in the particular town and area I'm staying in right now though.

Read the book stolen focus, it’s actually very low risk and good for them to allow them out in the community. But there is always the risk of bullies and big kids mugging them or worse.

It 1000% depends on the child.

We all make our own risk judgements.

I am happy for my 9 year old to be home alone for up to half an hour - I am confident he is sensible and knows what to do in case of fire etc

But I wouldn't let him play out - that feels a lot less safe to me. I know a lot of people on here would make the opposite judgement

He doesn't generally walk to school alone as he has a younger sibling but I have sent him in alone when younger one wasn't well. But we live on the same street as the school and there are no roads to cross

Your friend needs to watch "Old Enough" on Netflix. Kids aged 4ish being sent on errands to the shops etc (obviously the hidden camera crew is there and so there is no real danger). It's really funny.

Having met teenagers who are 15 and are unable to make a cup of tea or a simple bowl of pasta with a jar of sauce or cheese on top (no disabilities or SEN) I think you are doing a good thing.

independence doesn’t come instantly and gradually teaching age appropriate skills seems to me to be a sign of good parenting to help kids mature and develop into autonomous adults

This is very child specific. Kids develop at different rates in this regard.

Of course you must risk assess, and teach your child to risk assess and teach them (and role play) what to do in the event of a problem.

I agree that children should gradually be extended more and more independence in increments, the aim is to build a fully functioning adult by the time they leave home.

It’s an ongoing journey though, my DC are at uni, some of their peers are entirely independent and some need their parents help for every little thing.

Your child / your choice but if you are allowing him to go to the shops I can’t see why you won’t let him out to play , I can’t see much difference from a safety pov .

I agree with your approach. When I was growing up, my parents were considered rather over-protective. But by today's standards, they would be seen by some as shockingly neglectful. 😅In reality, I think they got most things right and I follow a similar approach. Constant supervision with no opportunity to develop independence does most children no favours whatsoever IMO. It is one aspect of childhood that has changed dramatically in the past couple of decades and definitely not for the better.

I'm always shocked when parents refuse to allow their 10-year-old child to walk to school alone in a safe neighbourhood but at the same time hand over a smartphone to that same child with very little oversight. In my view, the latter is considerably more dangerous than the former for many reasons.

Is she some kind of Victorian laydeee? Who could possibly be shocked by something so mundane?

But why does it matter what she does, she will do her and you do you and you will both be happy with your choices

We dont all have to be the same