To think introducing independence at 8/9yo isn't neglectful?

[popocatepetlgoesboom]

My eldest is 9 (y4), I want to prepare him for being independent. He can walk/cycle to school on his own and goes to the corner shop on his own for errands. I don't let him play out or go to the park without me, but once there he will roam about with known adults nearby but not in sight.

I played out from 5/6 in a village cul-de-sac with local kids. At 8/9 I was going all over the village. He doesn't have anything like the same freedom I had and I feel guilty about this.

My friends eldest is 8 (y3). We were talking about this and she was shocked. She thinks my approach is unacceptably high risk. Her DS doesn't do anything without heavy supervision. She sees her role to protect from harm as more important than teaching independence.

She's always been more risk averse than me. We both grew up in safe small places, both now live in big cities. She's in a nice leafy area, I'm in a rougher area.

I've always respected her judgement - over the years I've found she is usually right! But I'm not sure this time. Who's right?

I never allowed my DD to walk home from primary school on her own, why would I if I was available to collect her and then remove any unnecessary risk. She was fine with it and never actually asked. She always knew I trusted her, it was others I didn’t trust.

I allowed my DS to come home alone from primary school if he was riding his bike. He wanted the independence so we compromised that he took his bike to and from school with no stops either way. We also tracked his phone, so knew immediately if he ever needed help.

Kids don’t need too much independence at 9 years old, their safety comes first. There’s plenty of time for developing independence when they reach secondary school.

@popocatepetlgoesboom OP, your friend is right to keep her child safe first, independence second.

Problem is, even ‘safe’ neighbourhoods have people who may not be safe in them, or travelling through them. And while it might be extremely rare for awful things to happen, when they do they really are awful.

I am sort of torn on this because I don’t think it depends on the child so much as children become what they have to be. I’ve possibly explained that badly but children aren’t born streetwise; they become streetwise because they are on the streets.

But a lot of it is just an ever changing world: I worry about my children’s maths skills as they aren’t using or counting money in the way I did. So while I would go and choose penny sweets in the corner shop and count and take away without realising it, my children don’t do this. Even just going to the shop isn’t a routine thing any more with Morrisons deliveries and the like.

@LastWord26 The alternative view is let them develop independence over a longer period of time in smaller increments as that reduces risk.

So walking 5 or 10 mins to primary school along known routes with other parents about prepares them for longer journeys to secondary without parents.

You have to let go at some point, and as I said upthread parents have very varying views between ages 8-12.

I am working abroad temporarily and it is lovely to see the children here walking to and from school on their own, out with friends on bikes, going to shops, etc. It's a smallish city and the drivers here tend to be very vigilant about stopping for pedestrians which no doubt gives parents considerable reassurance. There is also a cultural outlook that all adults are responsible for all children, which seems quite different to the general mindset in the UK.

Depends on the child, but personally I wouldn't be comfortable with primary aged. However, our route home isn't the easiest.

There’s wrong-uns in every country. They all hide in plain sight.

Times have definitely changed. When I was 7 I would be out for hours every day, sometimes we’d be on our bikes about 2 miles away without my parents knowing. It occurred to me the other day that my 7 year old has never even crossed a road by herself.

I think I would personally like them to still be in sight at all times. Cases like the awful recent one with Athena Strand really take up space in my mind. But I also wouldn’t go so far as to say you are neglectful.

I'd say this is my approach. I know what I want them to be able to do in time, so I think about what I can do to help them get there and learn what they need to know to help them make the right decisions.

Another factor is I remember how much pleasure it gave me as a child to have the independence to explore and roam about on my own. Its different thinking how to do that in our city vs my childhood village though for sure.

You make a good point. I'd love to let him play out like I did in my village - our cul de sac had lots of kids and pretty much everyone played out so it was easy to join in. Plus neighbours knew each other and kept an eye out.

Its so different here. We are in a relatively quiet neighbourhood in a city, I love it but it has all the problems you get in a city - drugs, stabbings, gangs, idiots driving too fast in residential streets. Easy to avoid if you know how, but thats something the kids need to learn. Very few other kids play out, and often the ones that do are the ones who are starting to get into trouble.

It’s like that meme, you can have two kids close in age, one is mature and you trust them, the other you wouldn’t let them hold an umbrella. My oldest was the first and middle the latter.
However 9 would have been too young in the small town we were in. Traffic was insane and a mile to school crossing busy roads.

I agree. I actually think that the most dangerous place for children walking by themselves is outside their own school due to the awful driving of some parents!

Children might be sensible and trustworthy and able to cross roads beautifully but all that goes out of the window when a school run parent suddenly decides to ramp a pavement while you’re walking there! Especially if children are small and can’t be seen to easily from the towering heights of some of the school run tanks you see!

So my decision on my DC walking wasn’t so much based on the trust I had in them, but the dangerous behaviour of others!

A relatively quiet neighbourhood with drugs, stabbings and gangs? Good grief. Are you living on Wisteria Lane?

Haha @ImImmortalNowBabyDoll , no - just a very socially mixed area of a big city. I've been here 20 years and none of it has ever affected me, but all these kind of incidents do happen within our part of town.

Its one of the contrasts with my friend I find interesting - she thinks her area is dangerous because its in a city where all this stuff happens, but specifically where she is is a lovely leafy middle class suburb of cul de sacs where all the houses are lovely £600k+ owner occupied semis. I look at it and I think its perfect for playing out, but I never see any kids playing there.

I think the saddest thing about modern parenting is 1. Lack of playing out 2. Phones for young children.

Playing out from age 7yrs was the best time of my
life.

It depends on the child’s maturity however age 8yrs not being able to do anything alone I don’t think sets up the child well for future difficulties. If they cannot walk a short distance at that age I would question the parenting. I personally don’t believe that the world is more dangerous than 50yrs ago (excluding social media harm).

I don't think either of you is unreasonable, exactly. I wish I were like you but really I am more like your friend. 😅I have a daughter the same age as yours and she is very sensible, but I feel quite sick at the thought of her crossing roads by herself, and in general being completely out of my sight and reach. I am not paranoid about abductions and such things, but I do worry a lot about traffic. We unfortunately live in an area where you have to cross many roads to get to any kind of green space.

Interestingly the same friend recommended this book to me too! It recommends getting children playing separately from screens.

Her approach to this is to fill up her kids time with scheduled organised clubs, or for her/DP to take them out and play with them or heavily supervise their play with others. I'd say thats similar for the kids around them given what I've seen when I visit, despite their neighbourhood looking really good for playing out.

I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer with this as it depends on the child’s personality and the area you live in. I have only recently allowed my ten year old to go to the park without me, go on a bike ride around the village etc. That felt the right age and he’s got his big brother to oversee some of it if they are at the park together.

I don’t leave him home alone ever, although I know friends who do. When my older child is 14 legally he can care for his sibling while I shoot out for milk.

My son was walking to school alone at his own request at age 7.

We lived in a quiet Surrey village and the school was at the bottom of the garden but he had to walk around the block to get to it. No roads to cross. School rules required an adult to collect him though unfortunately

DD was less independent minded and went to a different school a short drive away. I would however frequently drop her at the closest parking space so she could walk in alone.

Both were independently catching the bus at age 11 to get to their respective secondary schools.