To think amount of Roma and Traveller children withdrawn from school underage needs to be cracked down on?

[Jane379]

Two things have made me think about this.

One was the recent thread on Venezuela Fury, Tyson's daughter. Her situation appears slightly different as apparently she did receive tuition online but it made me look into the wider situation.

I know there has been improvement, and that many Roma & travellers families don't do this. But it shouldn't be allowed in the first place. Yes, some who do may homeschool their kids properly, but how many?

There needs to be more regulation of homeschooling.

Why do Roma & traveller kids often slip through the net? Is it sometimes linked to families moving around so children move from one LA to another?

There' nothing wrong with kids preferring to pursue technical options than academic, or living the travelling lifestyle. But school would give them a chance to choose.

For a lot of Rom, home education is how we break the low aspirations your schools try to put in our kids heads.

But you are only interested in the stereotypes that you think we all are.
You think we are some sort of hive mind. We have commonalities, but as many differences within our culture as you do.

Many of us pull our kids out of school these days, to protect them from drugs, sexual assault, sex, pornography, gender rubbish, a life on tic toc, racism, wokeism, bullying, stabbings, and damaged mental health.

When we self educate and get good exam results you seek to explain it as some kind of special case.
If your health system finds out what we are, we aren't likely to get good treatment.
When we choose to go to university or into professions, we have to hide who we are or face discrimination.

All your education systems are ultimately aimed at ending every part of our culture that you don't like. You want our vitsia's and natsia's split up into taxable units that no longer have self reliance. Our old put into 'homes' to die lonely and uncared about. You want our language forgotten and us to be almost the same as you, but not quite. What you really want is us reduced to caricatures that you can make fantasies about, and not a lot else.

There is age old prejudice on both sides.

But there is a lot of evidence that misogyny is more prevalent among the traveller community..DV rates are higher. Attitudes that non traveller women are sexually immoral seem more common too. Obviously not all travellers think this way, but it's not hateful to state that certain problems like misogyny are more of a problem in certain communities and this can contribute to crimes like rape (the grooming gangs are another example of this)

Trying to shut down any criticism and a debate by claiming racism is daft.

Young people should all have a chance to receive a proper education and broaden their horizon.

Then they can make their own choices as adults.

If a woman decides to focus on her family that is perfectly fine once she a grown adult but forcing teenage girls into leaving school to become housewives in training is not appropriate.

Maybe Roma children are bullied in school. You wouldn’t dare bully an Irish traveller in school, those boys and girls can fight.

I am really sorry you've experienced such prejudice.

But you're making assumptions that are not warranted. I'm a non Roma and my grandmother lived with my family from when she got frail. Plenty of non Roma people try to support their elderly relatives at home or move them in, just look at all the caring threads on Mumsnet. We're not all heartless!

I certainly don't want Roma language to be forgotten. Plenty of cultures go to school and speak a different language at home : eg. Lots of British Hindus have kids who are bilingual in Gujarati etc

How do Roma support themselves? Wjy do they not use a toilet inside their home? Why do they value bare knuckle fighing? How do they feel about Gay daughters/ sons?

Many of us pull our kids out of school these days, to protect them from drugs, sexual assault, sex, pornography, gender rubbish, a life on tic toc, racism, wokeism, bullying, stabbings, and damaged mental health.

• I can totally understand wanting to avoid these problems. But do you think all kids at school are subjected to these? If you have daughters, for one, going to a single sex school minimises a lot of them. Going to a conservative school like a Catholic school probably would, as well. Among other things. I can respect homeschooling if children are educated properly but this seems a bit of a dramatic & worst-case-scenario view of schools.

Moreover, before these problems were so widespread in schools (at least stuff like TikTok, porn, sexual assault, stabbings), Roma & traveller children still seem to have often been withdrawn. I imagine racist bullying did play a big role in this, though.

Rom children tend to be isolated in schools and punished if they stick up for themselves. We get off rolled and excluded faster because parents don't go up the school shouting the odds. Then our kids have poor school records and are seen as trouble makers at the next school. Many of us have just given it up as a bad job.

I think bare knuckle fighting is travellers, not Roma..

Difference is, you can get a degree and have options. Work for 10 years before you have a child, save some money, travel, do whatever you want to before kids come along. Then you can work full time, part time or not at all. Building up a pension for older age.

Work and educations brings options. Work is so important for more than just income, it’s a source of interest, personal growth, friendships, socialising.

All very well being taught in primary school and becoming a baby machine, but there’s no options should the woman want more from life.

Purposely restricting a child’s (female) ability to learn and be independent is cruel. I’m sure the taliban also challenge claims of cruelty but that doesn’t make it right.

Women deserve education and choices in life. We deserve to be independent and able to change our life if we want to. A culture that prohibits that is awful.

Apologies.

Haven't RTFT but Romany gypsy here.

We don't want your schooling thanks.

May I ask why?

Trying to shut down any defence of a different culture by appeals to women's rights and opportunities is also daft when we look at the state of women's rights and opportunities in the mainstream culture we're being expected to join. I don't look at Carrie Johnson or Nigella Lawson and see that they were kept safe by their culture or their education.

I'm all for education, but it has to be inclusive which means it has to be delivered in a way that works for different cultures. And in itself it doesn't protect women from abuse.

That said, I do agree that education, in the broad sense, is a good thing, and a bit of time to look around and decide before jumping into marriage and babies, or university and corporate ladder, is a good thing too.

Married at 14 or 15. pregnant at 16 doesn't seem great for anybody.

Because the things they teach are not things we want our children learning
Because our kids are not allowed to do the things that are normal for yours to do at that age

We are not against education, we are against schools.

Good job that's very far from the norm then, isn't it

Happy to learn more?

Our children do not get married at that age. The reason Venezuela Fury's wedding was so talked about was because she was so young, even her own family said so. We get married younger, but not that young. Maybe a couple of generations ago yes, but it's definitely not the norm now.

Sorry, may I follow up on this?

What do you not want your children learning which schools teach?

And what things are non Roma kids allowed to do which you wouldn't let yours do?

Because the things they teach are not things we want our children learning

Do you have any examples please?

And the toilet thing too is related to Irish travellers, when they have mobiles around the main house. It’s kept spotless. Not even a wee in the toilet.

Thanks

Yes a lot of people overlooked that she got married on the Isle of Man which has different laws. Scotland still allow marriage at 16 though- which I don't agree with, but it's unfair to just single out travellers on that if that's what people are doing

Re sex, can I ask: sex doesn't normally take place in schools, and I assume you don't mean this. So how do you prevent your teens having sex? I assume they are chaperoned most of the time? Are they allowed to have non traveller friends though?