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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think some people on here are way too obsessed with not being seen as racist?

323 replies

BadWordlePlayer · Yesterday 08:49

I’m posting in AIBU because this has been niggling at me for a while with the tone of so many threads lately, but it's really blown up following the bodycam footage of the Henry Nowak case.

There seem to be loads of posts these days where people are basically showing off how not racist they are, or how much they hate racists or the 'far right', or jumping in to call something racist at the slightest thing. It feels performative, like they’re desperate to signal their virtue and make sure everyone knows they’re on the “right” side. I get that racism is bad, obviously, but it sometimes feels like it’s taken over to the point where common sense goes out the window.

Henry Nowak shows how dangerous this mindset is. This poor 18-year-old student was stabbed multiple times by Vickrum Digwa, who then lied to the police claiming Henry had racially abused him. The officers took that accusation at face value, handcuffed Henry while he was lying there bleeding out and saying he couldn’t breathe, and didn’t treat him as the victim urgently enough. He died in police custody essentially. The mindset of those officers sounds exactly like the over-the-top “must not be perceived as racist” attitude you see in some threads here. They sidelined a dying boy because of a racism claim (which turned out to be a complete lie). That’s not just sad — it’s dangerous.

This isn't a left wing / right wing post and I’m not saying racism doesn’t exist or that we shouldn’t call it out when it’s real. I also hate the phrase "virtue signalling", but I can't think of a better one than it. This constant virtue-signalling and knee-jerk reactions make situations like Henry’s more likely, not less. People (including police) become so paralysed by the fear of getting it wrong on race that they get it horrifically wrong on everything else.

Am I being unreasonable? Or has anyone else noticed this shift on MN and in general?

OP posts:
Twisterlollies · Yesterday 20:15

JHound · Yesterday 20:01

But the events have spoken have the? They have provided zero evidence. You can assume that he was killed because he was white. But it's just an assumption without further evidence.

Everything is an assumption in these cases because in very few do the killers loudly proclaim they murdered somebody on account of their race. But the fabrication given afterwards speaks volumes - he knew that he would kill somebody, he know the cover up would be ‘they were racist’, therefore his victim had to be white.

JaneFondue · Yesterday 20:23

Twisterlollies · Yesterday 20:14

Ideally I would like to see as many marches and online displays of concern about members of those communities as I do about Palestine and similar. Everyone seems to have no problems mobilising for Palestine but I doubt there will be widespread marches of disgust by community members regarding the grooming gangs, for instance. I would absolutely expect it from white Brits if the situation was reversed. And actually many white Brits do mobilise against racism, so you can’t say ‘nobody else is expected to do this’

Did men walk when Sarah Everard was murdered? Or the Hunt family?

Personally I avoid all marches these days. They get violent.

It's quite baffling that you expect all brown people to be out protesting. I am neither Muslim nor Pakistani.

OonaStubbs · Yesterday 20:25

30mins · Yesterday 20:13

I have noticed both IRL and MN that it depends who and what race is being targeted. The horrible things said about Travellers is often overlooked and reinforced.

Nobody cares about Travellers as a race. Travellers that have abandoned that lifestyle, and live settled, law-abiding lives are not discriminated against. Travellers that travel the land, breaking law after law as they go and leaving mess and destruction behind, quite rightly, are not particularly liked or welcome.

Twisterlollies · Yesterday 20:26

JaneFondue · Yesterday 20:23

Did men walk when Sarah Everard was murdered? Or the Hunt family?

Personally I avoid all marches these days. They get violent.

It's quite baffling that you expect all brown people to be out protesting. I am neither Muslim nor Pakistani.

And I wasn’t talking about you was I? You just assumed I was. And no, I don’t expect all ‘brown’ as you put it, people to be out protesting. I would like to see proper displays of condemnation from ANY community whose members have committed unspeakable crimes. Mine did; and I have never sought to underplay it, cover it up, ‘what about..’ or anything else. Full condemnation and disgust and I turned my back on most of it. So you can’t say I don’t practice as I preach. Now it’s everyone else’s turn.

MaturingCheeseball · Yesterday 20:44

anotherside · Yesterday 19:42

I’m sure voting for the guy who spent his formative years chanting Hitler Youth songs is the best way to bring the UK together.

Although many on the left think being against Jews is just fine and dandy…

JHound · Yesterday 20:46

Twisterlollies · Yesterday 20:14

Ideally I would like to see as many marches and online displays of concern about members of those communities as I do about Palestine and similar. Everyone seems to have no problems mobilising for Palestine but I doubt there will be widespread marches of disgust by community members regarding the grooming gangs, for instance. I would absolutely expect it from white Brits if the situation was reversed. And actually many white Brits do mobilise against racism, so you can’t say ‘nobody else is expected to do this’

This is hilarious. Marched to protest….a convicted murderer who has been tried,
convicted and sentences?

And that’s comparable to protesting ongoing actions of a government that is supported by our government.

What a hoot!

(There many white British child abuse gangs and I have never seen white people protest that. Nor do I expect to.)

JHound · Yesterday 20:48

Twisterlollies · Yesterday 20:26

And I wasn’t talking about you was I? You just assumed I was. And no, I don’t expect all ‘brown’ as you put it, people to be out protesting. I would like to see proper displays of condemnation from ANY community whose members have committed unspeakable crimes. Mine did; and I have never sought to underplay it, cover it up, ‘what about..’ or anything else. Full condemnation and disgust and I turned my back on most of it. So you can’t say I don’t practice as I preach. Now it’s everyone else’s turn.

So you expect men to protest VAWG?

JHound · Yesterday 20:50

Twisterlollies · Yesterday 20:15

Everything is an assumption in these cases because in very few do the killers loudly proclaim they murdered somebody on account of their race. But the fabrication given afterwards speaks volumes - he knew that he would kill somebody, he know the cover up would be ‘they were racist’, therefore his victim had to be white.

No actually there have been many instances where the killers words / behaviour / actions have provided reason for motive. We don’t
have that here. You are presuming he chose his excuse before he murdered somebody? Rather than as an after the fact excuse. Also the victim did not have to be white for him to make that claim. He could easily be black, East Asian, British Pakistani etc.

Twisterlollies · Yesterday 21:29

JHound · Yesterday 20:50

No actually there have been many instances where the killers words / behaviour / actions have provided reason for motive. We don’t
have that here. You are presuming he chose his excuse before he murdered somebody? Rather than as an after the fact excuse. Also the victim did not have to be white for him to make that claim. He could easily be black, East Asian, British Pakistani etc.

Edited

I find it quite incredible that you’re here desperately scrabbling for excuses to exonerate a murderer from their racism. I think it’s time for you to step back and look at where you have ended up.

Twisterlollies · Yesterday 21:29

JHound · Yesterday 20:48

So you expect men to protest VAWG?

Of course.

JaneFondue · Yesterday 21:30

JHound · Yesterday 20:48

So you expect men to protest VAWG?

It's all so performative really. I see no need to do all this condemnation and disgust in public every time someone from my community does something bad and make it about myself. Community heads can do that.
Best we have fewer marches really in London.

Twisterlollies · Yesterday 21:33

JaneFondue · Yesterday 21:30

It's all so performative really. I see no need to do all this condemnation and disgust in public every time someone from my community does something bad and make it about myself. Community heads can do that.
Best we have fewer marches really in London.

So you think Stand up to Racism, Antifa, the Palestine marches etc are performative and should stand down?

JHound · Yesterday 21:37

JaneFondue · Yesterday 21:30

It's all so performative really. I see no need to do all this condemnation and disgust in public every time someone from my community does something bad and make it about myself. Community heads can do that.
Best we have fewer marches really in London.

Neither. It’s stupid. Weird how people who whine about virtue signalling insist on this type of virtue signalling.

JHound · Yesterday 21:37

Twisterlollies · Yesterday 21:33

So you think Stand up to Racism, Antifa, the Palestine marches etc are performative and should stand down?

Sigh….people generally protest for something to actually be effected by that change.

What exactly is achieved by a bunch of Sikhs heading out to protest chanting “we disagree with this bad thing somebody who is Sikh did!”

Twisterlollies · Yesterday 21:39

JHound · Yesterday 21:37

Sigh….people generally protest for something to actually be effected by that change.

What exactly is achieved by a bunch of Sikhs heading out to protest chanting “we disagree with this bad thing somebody who is Sikh did!”

Edited

Can’t you just answer?

Sartre · Yesterday 21:39

Moskau · Yesterday 09:16

Most of the sikhs I know are nice people. They have good food, good music and are all nice to be around.

I think this might have actually played a part here. Rather than making this a brown v white thing, the Sikhs I have met have also been genuinely lovely and gentle people and it may be the case that the police officers (wrongly) saw the turban and stereotyped him as just that… Plus he had relatives there backing him up let’s not forget!

If you turned up to a crime scene, couldn’t see any visible blood at all, had a man and his relatives saying this person had racially abused them then you would naturally listen to this. I’m assuming Nowak wasn’t in a big pool of blood from what I’ve read so it wasn’t blindingly obvious he was telling the truth until it was too late.

Twisterlollies · Yesterday 21:39

JHound · Yesterday 21:37

Neither. It’s stupid. Weird how people who whine about virtue signalling insist on this type of virtue signalling.

How convenient

JaneFondue · Yesterday 21:39

Twisterlollies · Yesterday 21:33

So you think Stand up to Racism, Antifa, the Palestine marches etc are performative and should stand down?

No. But I don't accept your pious exhortion for Muslims or Hindus or Sikhs to protest everytime one of their community does something bad.

We don't need to do anything to be British except mind our own houses and follow the laws, as the majority of white people do.

JHound · Yesterday 21:42

Twisterlollies · Yesterday 21:29

I find it quite incredible that you’re here desperately scrabbling for excuses to exonerate a murderer from their racism. I think it’s time for you to step back and look at where you have ended up.

If that’s what you are choosing to read I cannot help you.

MaturingCheeseball · Yesterday 21:42

Twisterlollies · Yesterday 21:33

So you think Stand up to Racism, Antifa, the Palestine marches etc are performative and should stand down?

Yes. They are full of rent-a-mob anti-establishment idiots. I’ve seen them goading the police with cameras held up, spitting in police officers’ faces, shrieking at tourists through megaphones - going into restaurants no less to do this, littering with impunity…

JHound · Yesterday 21:42

JaneFondue · Yesterday 21:39

No. But I don't accept your pious exhortion for Muslims or Hindus or Sikhs to protest everytime one of their community does something bad.

We don't need to do anything to be British except mind our own houses and follow the laws, as the majority of white people do.

We don't need to do anything to be British except mind our own houses and follow the laws, as the majority of white people do.

LOUDER. For the people at the back!

LadyVioletBridgerton · Yesterday 21:45

It’s like when certain sectors of society seem to be able to get away with crimes by saying ‘you’re only arresting me because I’m xxx’ (could relate to colour/religion etc)

No mate, you’re being arrested because you’ve just shoplifted £300 of goods In Sainsbury’s or stabbed someone 🤷‍♀️

JHound · Yesterday 21:45

Sartre · Yesterday 21:39

I think this might have actually played a part here. Rather than making this a brown v white thing, the Sikhs I have met have also been genuinely lovely and gentle people and it may be the case that the police officers (wrongly) saw the turban and stereotyped him as just that… Plus he had relatives there backing him up let’s not forget!

If you turned up to a crime scene, couldn’t see any visible blood at all, had a man and his relatives saying this person had racially abused them then you would naturally listen to this. I’m assuming Nowak wasn’t in a big pool of blood from what I’ve read so it wasn’t blindingly obvious he was telling the truth until it was too late.

I said this and some scoffed but I always think this kind of veneration of Sikh people had a huge role to play in why the police reacted as they did.

JHound · Yesterday 21:46

LadyVioletBridgerton · Yesterday 21:45

It’s like when certain sectors of society seem to be able to get away with crimes by saying ‘you’re only arresting me because I’m xxx’ (could relate to colour/religion etc)

No mate, you’re being arrested because you’ve just shoplifted £300 of goods In Sainsbury’s or stabbed someone 🤷‍♀️

Who has got away with crime by saying that?

Twisterlollies · Yesterday 21:48

JaneFondue · Yesterday 21:39

No. But I don't accept your pious exhortion for Muslims or Hindus or Sikhs to protest everytime one of their community does something bad.

We don't need to do anything to be British except mind our own houses and follow the laws, as the majority of white people do.

Well well well. So - very left wing protests are justified and authentic, but anything which in way could be seen to be protesting the actions of people that aren’t white would be performative and a waste of time? You sound ludicrous.