Matt Walsh.. but is he right about this one?

[Walkyrie]

Yes it’s Matt Walsh but I thought this was an interesting post. What do you think? I somewhat agree with him although I can think of a handful of things that will probably live and die in the 2020s (socks over leggings, hopefully).

My 17yr old would agree with him.
She thinks the tv series, music and fashion were miles better in the 90s-2010.

I wonder what happened to youth subculture? Where are the modern versions of mods, rockets, hippies, punks and New Romantics?
I am old and nearly all young people seem to look the same.
The only exception I can think of the “woke” culture (sorry can’t think of a better way to describe them) Even that is a rehash of punk( brightly coloured hair) Gothic/ metal (facial piercings) 1980s fashion( zany and unusual colour combinations)

I think there are trends, but they don't seem to be as largely cohesive or 'universal' now because there are so many more options for entertainment—yet what feels like fewer distinctive options in other areas of life, such as fashion. As PPs said upthread, we no longer have much of the experience of most people watching the same thing at night and discussing it the next day or listening to the same music on popular radio broadcasts. The cultural touchstones feel missing or at least weaker.

When DH and I discuss something we've seen recently on social media, it's surprising how certain themes, memes, and stories seem to be everywhere for him, while I've barely seen them at all, and vice versa. The algorithm is showing us very different things on the same platforms. Something that will appear to be common knowledge (in terms of pop culture) based on what he sees might pass me by entirely.

Music hasn't moved forward since auto tuning. It is like everything is auto tuned now, they even go back and auto tune the greats for their music platforms which makes it all sound slightly off.

And if anyone can wear anything and nothing is shocking the only tribe left is the one that you are cancelled if you go outside it. You see it here all the time, people refusing to talk to people who have different thoughts. It's like diversity killed actual diversity.

I think it's a few things causing this feeling...

1. Time periods are only recognized after they end. No one in the 90s knew what was "90s" until time moved on and we looked back.

1. We are all older and this culture is lead by the young.. all older generations mourn the lack of culture, but really they mourn not being part of it anymore. It's still happening, just with the new youth.

1. The places of new culture have changed. They aren't movies or tv anymore. They are online, all over social media spaces and trends that generally fly right past older people, leaving them feeling like nothing is happening in the culture.

1. There are some specific industries like movies, that have declined in originality. Yet these are not the main space for cultural innovation anymore.

So for example.. sure movies are lacking creativity and an identity, but..

Video games? Huge, bigger than ever, massive part of the culture. Kpop. Anime, ticktok, podcasts, all exploding in popularity and full of creative innovation in the last 10 years.

But if your main media is the tv and movies, you'd miss almost all of it.

I somewhat agree but I do also think that actually I can pinpoint styles and trends from certain years and age probable makes a difference because the years I’m referring can really pinpoint were from 2010-2019 when I was 16-25. I won’t go through every year but:

2010: skinny jeans, Ugg boot, big statement belts, side fringes, converse, checked shirts. Facebook dominated, xfactor was big, downtown Abby began, the inbetweeners was huge. Inception and the kings speech came out, and toystory 3. Music wise we had only girl in the world, love the way you lie, tinie tempah became a thing, Katie Perry was quite big with teenage dream and California girls, let the sun shine is probably the main song I think of when I think of 2010.

2012: skinny jeans, peplum tops, converse were big, boys would wear topman Rihanna tops, the side fringe was in, ombré hair was in. Facebook still dominated by Instagram was becoming bigger. Gangnam style came out, somebody that I used to know, what makes you beautiful, call me maybe, Titanium, we found love etc. one direction became huge. People still watched the X factor. Skyfall and the hunger games came out. We had the olympics.

2016: skinny jeans were still in, bomber jackets, chokers made a come back, athleisure was big, Kylie Jenner makeup was in its prime so basically matte everything especially lip liner and lipstick -!: thicker perfectly done brows. Snapchat filters became huge and Pokémon go. Music wise we had Drake, Justin bieber, Rhianna all peaking in popularity. I can’t name it but there was a definite sound to 2016 such as (closer by the chainsmokers, work by rhianna, work from home by fifth harmony, shout out to my ex by little mix, dangerous woman by Ariana grande etc etc). Love island became massively popular in 2016 with season 2. I think the crown came out in 2016, line of duty was big, bake off.

2019: over sized became more trendy, mom jeans rather than skinny jeans, neon colours were in, makeup became less heavy, logos and branded clothing were big. Lewis capaldi became big. Music went from big party anthems in early 2010s to just a different kind of sound, abit slower less in your face maybe? Billie eilish contributed to a change in sound I think. Love island, the crown, line of duty, bake off, all were huge. The movie 1917 came out. This was the year I think streaming and traditional tv were as popular as each other.

2020; obviously changed everything with Covid and lockdown. Loungewear was the style. Music wise we had dua lipa and harry styles although for me I’d say 2020 is when music became abit all over the place. But anyway, we all baked banana bread, watched tiger king, normal people, bridgerton came out. Everyone was using zoom. Working from home became normal.

2024: baggy jeans, adidas gazelles, adidas sambas, bright colours are out, converse are out. Music wise we had Sabrina carpenter everywhere, charliexcx, Chappell roan, Beyoncé with Texas holdem. We had the eras tour and Taylor Swift had become Massive! On tv we had the traitors, baby reindeer. Love island no longer as popular. TikTok dominates now.

you don’t really see it when you’re in it but years are definitely recognisable when you look back.

I love Matt Walsh.

I think a large part of the problem is social media, as usual. People are desperate to fit in and terrified of ridicule. I can't say I blame them, if I were on a platform and had hundreds or even thousands of people ripping my look to shreds, I'd probably not want to stand out either.

As far as films go, wokeness has killed Hollywood.

There are definitely themes and trends on social media that we oldsters are not always aware of. My DCs remember the "six-seven years", then it was Italian brainrot, then frutiger aero or God knows what.

I don't get it at all, but presumably that's the point! It's entertaining to hear about it though.

It really was though. I’d hate to grow up now. Kids can’t do anything for themselves and rely heavily on their parents. It’s scary.

I felt sorry for the youf in 2022 when Running Up That Hill was top of the charts. Like the kids don't make any music of their own, they just sit around watching screens imagining they're 80s kids. Happy to be told I'm old and out of touch and youth culture is all just thriving outside of (capitalist?) centralised cultural domains.
But @senua is right about that grey interior decor thing. I remember seeing grey cot sheets in a flash store in 2020. Never before in history have they been grey when you first bought them!!
@Xnz2022
Time periods are only recognized after they end. No one in the 90s knew what was "90s" until time moved on and we looked back.
I'm not sure this is true. The brat pack films felt very "this is 80s, this is us" at the time. I remember watching Clueless in late 90s and thinking, this is so 90's!! That scene with the boys in their crack revealing baggy pants. I think Cher even says "I don't want to be a traitor to my generation" when she criticises the fashion? (I may have watched that film way too many times. I do love it). There was a much more self-conscious sense of what it meant to be of-this-decade even in the passing moment, back in the day.
Maybe that was a weird late 20th century anomaly, and things have now gone back to normal?

I do feel sorry for them as PP mentioned with the lack of synchronicity. I remember everyone at school waiting for episodes of certain shows to be screened and all going in the next day excited to chat about it - which seems mad now!

Or magazines, our equivalent of social media where we got our fashion/‘celeb’ news/advice pages. Once a fortnight I would trot off to the corner shop with £2 for Shout to tell me how to make my ‘crush’ notice me. Once done it would get passed on to somebody else.

It does feel a bit like it’s all been lost in the vast soup of the internet. In theory that should mean more variation but somehow it hasn’t - we’ve just ended up with things like the Manosphere and self harm forum.

That’s a fair summary but as you describe the changes seem to be in such quick succession that they aren’t embedded, and lots of things are carried from phase to phase with the addition of a couple of news things.

I can definitely spot somebody dressed in 2010 versus 2020, but not 2015 onwards if that makes sense - the last decade is a lot harder, and while some fashions have moved on it does feel like films and music have dropped off a cliff really. Taylor Swift is still top for downloads, she’s been around about 16 years now! Ditto Drake.

I hate to say it but I do think that if we are on MN then we are too old to truly appreciate youth culture and how it feels to be part of it.

I was a teen in the 90s/early noughties and remember my parents berating our generation for only enjoying cover versions (remember when Boyzone, Westlife etc used to churn out endless covers) and rehashing trends from the 60s,70s and 80s. I remember in my later teens going around with fluorescent 80s style clothing and dresses with leggings underneath. My parents would bang on about the fact that the old sitcoms and TV shows were clearly better and more original. Lots of famous people were old and representative of a bygone era. We had Cilla Black and Bruce Forsyth on Primetime Saturday night TV for goodness, it was hardly some overwhelming youth movement that people portray on this thread.

Personally I think trends are around now as they always have been. Anyone with a tween/teen will feel this acutely with recent trends for the 1990s, Nike pros, White Fox, Hollister etc. some trends last a while and some don't but does anyone remember the skousers from the 90s that lasted 5 minutes? Trends always had a limited shelf life. There has been a move towards certain kinds of books, K Pop etc amongst older teens whilst younger kids are into needohs, jellycats and squishies. This is all reminiscent of the trends for yo-yos and Bang on the Door when I was younger. I still see more grungey/alternative kids knocking around alongside chavs and more fashionable kids.

My point is that I think if you actually grew up now you would be subjected to more of these trends and elements of youth culture than we are as adults. It's therefore natural that because we are older we feel that their influence has weakened because we aren't influenced by them anymore. We aren't listening to new music incessantly anymore or keeping up with viral moments so they pass us by and we think that nothing is happening that is comparable to when we were younger. Unfortunately I think it's just a sign that we are getting old.

The youth do have subculture but unless you spend time with kids it's hard to recognise. Working in a school I see many distinct groups. K-pop, furries, geeks, nerds, woke, sporty, gamers. Fashion trends include very short shorts/skirts, birks and socks, 3/4 jorts, sagging, Nike Pro, balaclavas, boys have mushroom hair, trendy girls have very long hair, alternatives have multi coloured, face piercing is really popular. E-scooters and my personal pet hate in ear head phones

It does feel a bit like it’s all been lost in the vast soup of the internet. In theory that should mean more variation but somehow it hasn’t - we’ve just ended up with things like the Manosphere and self harm forum

This what I find odd, more content but a lack of choice. Maybe it’s because we are poorer so the powers that be play it safer to ensure maximum profitability.

Furries and balaclavas?! Is this some kind of dystopian reality?

My point is that I think if you actually grew up now you would be subjected to more of these trends and elements of youth culture than we are as adults.

But as adults would you not see some of it in your own dc or relatives etc? Particularly as you would be buying the stuff for your dc?

My parents were definitely aware what I & other young people were into in the 80s & 90s

Working in a school I see many distinct groups. K-pop, furries, geeks, nerds, woke, sporty, gamers. Fashion trends include very short shorts/skirts, birks and socks, 3/4 jorts, sagging, Nike Pro, balaclavas, boys have mushroom hair, trendy girls have very long hair, alternatives have multi coloured, face piercing is really popular. E-scooters and my personal pet hate in ear head phones

I work in a school but it has a uniform so don’t see the above. .I did enjoy the boys broccoli hair but there is a lot less variety with girls hair, short hair is rare.

In ear headphones are ubiquitous in the under 50s not just kids.

It was the decade of cultural change brought about by smart phones, and of identity politics run wild, especially with the rise of trans ideology. In the West, people had to become much more cautious about what they said for fear of a life-ruining social media pile on, and that affected fiction, drama and music. Against that was the right-wing backlash that brought us Brexit and Trump.

I think it’s sad young people can’t really experience letting go and not caring how you looked or what you might say because of phones documenting everything & your digital footprint. I did some stupid things when young!

Well yes but this won’t be happening as theres been not a lot of change for the last 20 years.
There have been fashion changes like the total rejection of high heels or when the huge maxi dress came in and skinnies left. But generally the trend towards casual has blurred fashion. Music obviously lost all its bands so that’s sort if defining I guess.

I often say to DH when we were kids and my friends dad used to go in the front room to listen to The Beatles we used to think why is he listening to stuff from years ago. This was like 1982 so looking back only 12 years after they had split up. I would say now the most recent music I listen to would be
Arctic Monkeys from 2013 . So I don't know if that's an age thing but I listen to greatest hits radio which doesn't even go into the new millennium ! There are some I like Sam Fender, catfish and the Bottle men, inhaler but I do feel like it's all been done. And my mum used to say that in the 80s and get on my nerves saying it! I think I'm pretty out of touch with my gen Z DD more than my gen y kids they seemed to grow up in my era. So I feel it's more an ageing thing and there is still a lot out there for kids but I can't be bothered finding it cos I'm comfortable.
I've only used music as my example. There are big film events or TV like Oppenheimer/Barbie, Adolescence.
I don't know much about fashion but something big like the miniskirt is remembered as something iconic it was revolutionary women showing their legs off but now people wear as little or as much as they like. Boundaries have been broken down, mass market fashion and too much choice takes the joy out of shopping. Or again I'm just too old.
I think there is a lot more accessible culture to enjoy for everyone now museums etc city breaks. We can be open to new things but they are a normal thing now for many.
Icons such as Marilyn Monroe were fewer than YouTube or Instagram influencers but to some they are as famous.
I don't know whether I'm totally off here but I do think it's more of an ageing thing. As out grandparents thought everything went has as teens was rubbish but we thought it was the greatest thing ever. Sony Walkman anyone? Tamagotchi?

Hmmm there is lots of new music out there, you just have to search for it.
I went to a gig last week with dh and dd.
A tiny gig in Leeds.
I doubt anyone on here will know of the artists.
We only went because the first act was the support act to another non mainstream act we saw last year.
Dh is a huge music nerd though.
The gig before that was Youngblud but again, we have followed him for years. Dh knew his dad.
I always think we will look out of place and old, but no we don’t. The vibe is very accepting and an anything goes vibe.
Lots of people wearing their own interesting clothes regardless of fashion.

There are big film events or TV like Oppenheimer/Barbie, Adolescence.

But apart from Barbie these weren’t aimed at young people were they?

Isn’t there more over 60s than under 25s? That has got to be a factor

Nah.

I thought this when I was growing up in the '90s. How could future generations possibly encapsulate a decade that had rave AND grunge AND Take That? Compared to (what I knew of) previous decades, the '90s just seemed so much more varied and impossible to pin down.

Turns out that was nonsense. Not because I was wrong about the variety but because future generations' "idea" of a decade only focuses on the dominant aesthetic, not the forgotten subcultures or the nuances or the people who were never into that thing at the time. Kind of like how history is only written by the winners.

(The dominant aesthetic of a decade that ends up dating it is usually related to technology and for the 2020s it'll obviously be vertical videos, TikTok captions and shonky bite-size clips.)