Is Germany being unreasonable? Childfree adults paying more for elder care

[Fauxlein]

"Childfree adults to pay more in elder care contributions — report
According to a report from German media group RND, federal Health Minister Nina Warken has prepared a draft bill that would have adults without children pay a higher percentage of taxes towards publicly-funded elder care.
The bill would have contributions from childfree adults increase by 0.7% over a period of years, meaning they would pay 2.5% of their income each month. Their employer will be expected to pay 1.8%. For adults with children the rates will remain the same: 1.8% for people with one child, 1.55% for people with two children, and 1.3% for people with three or more children.
Under the proposal, all adults over the age of 23 who are working full-time would be affected.
It is unclear when Warken, a member of Chancellor Friedrich Merz's center-right Christian Democrats (CDU), will submit the draft to the cabinet. Her ministry had originally said it would present a proposal for elder care reform in mid-May. With a long-stagnating birthrate mildly buoyed by immigration, Germany needs to act fast to make sure older generations can be taken care of without placing an undue burden on young people."

YABU - German Health Minister is being unreasonable, it's not kids responsibility to look after elderly parents and is unfair to penalise child free people
YANBU - this seems like a fair counterbalance to increasing costs to the state of elder care

I don't like the idea of penalising people for not having kids when that may be completely out of their control. If governments want/need people to have kids then by all means incentivise that with childcare, food vouchers, affordable housing etc as well as assistance getting mums back to work

My state pensions is not a consideration. My actual pension is private.

That's not the case for many.

I think I share the view of those who made the point that childfree adults are paying through their taxes for the education and health care for other people’s children, as well as for maternity and paternity benefits that they do not benefit from themselves, so this seems a bit unfair.

I suspect it is also the case that childfree women tend to have earned more over their lifetimes than women with children, so are more likely to have savings and have to pay their own care home fees. They are also likely to have paid more tax and NI contributions than women with children.

My husband and I each had an unmarried aunt born in the early 1920s. They both worked full time for over 40 years and they both ended their days in care homes fully funded by themselves.

It’s not unfair imo.

I suspect employers will do everything possible to not pay though.. so possibly discriminate against people when hiring.
What about if you couldn’t have children because of a medical issue? I think that should be an exemption.

Just like other people paid towards THEM when THEY were children

Well I have done years of free care for my elderly father (have moved back in with him to care for him). And I am childless not by choice, so feel I would lose out twice:(

Actually I think they are pretty reasonable. People without kids have less expenses overall and the elder care is massively expensive so they can afford to pay more towards their own care given that they aren’t raising future taxpayers who’d pay towards elder care

So not only are couples who have one partner that is infertile lose out on the chance of being parents, they now have to pay more for the priviledge.

Thanks.

Maybe I should have fallen in love with and married a man with functional sperm.🙄

If you don't have children for any reason they won't be there to pay for your care home. So the state will have to pay. So those of us without children in Germany pay extra.

This is also never factored in. It’s frequently the case that the childfree perform more elder care because they don’t have child dependants drawing their time. So they save the state money but are still penalised for it.

Since when do children pay for care home fees? Is this the norm in Germany because it is highly, highly unusual here.

But won’t have consumed any for their children. So I pay into the child education / healthcare / childcare bucket but don’t take anything out thus leaving more available for parents.

As a few PPs have said, this proposal needs to be looked at in the light of the existing system (German citizen here). Already, children can be on the hook for their parents' care needs, whether or not they are estranged or live in a different country (I don't live in Germany, but theoretically, they could come after me if they needed to, if my financial situation and obligations allowed it). So I suppose from their point of view, they are looking for a bigger contribution from people who are more likely to need the financial help later. I'm not sure what I think about it, but it doesn't work to compare it directly with the British system (which I find pretty messed up...).

I think it's a completely fair viewpoint. I'm happy for my taxes to fund all those things for the good of society and to support parents and children, but as a childfree person I've not accessed that support myself. After a recent operation I wasn't entitled to any kind of funded care package and paid for what I needed myself. If it were to be suggested here I don't think those without children should pay more ( they may not even be childfree through choice). I speak as someone past pension age who's still working.

ETA - though I never claimed benefits of any kind until the state pension, I appreciate that now, by the age of 70, I'm a net recipient.

I will pay my own care home fees

How is it not sex discrimination?
Vast majority of single parents are women.
Too many men get to walk away and avoid financial responsibilities
Women on average earn less than men for various reasons
To produce a child men just need to ejaculate (not all have good swimmers) women obviously have to go through a lot more.
So physical, emotional, sacrifice and financial burden of children weigh far more on women than men.

And for those who pay for all their own care so why- do they get a rebate?

And the last sentence of your post is very germane for Germany - they are still pretty sexist when it comes to mothers in the workplace. I don't see how they can have it both ways.

Agreed.

My late husband had two children who gave no support when their father was ill. I've noted elsewhere that when I had a health glitch and warned that he'd need support (an advocate, at least) if anything happened to me the immediate response was "You're not thinking of leaving him, are you?"

When I got the all-clear, I let them know but emphasised again that care would be needed if anything happened to me. (DH had hemiparesis following a stroke.)

The response this time was "But you're all right, aren't you?"

There was a two-year period when I didn't work because of my husband's condition, so I took a financial hit by taking a reduced pension.

When their mother needed to go to hospital for a procedure, I was the one who took her there and back - there was no sign of the kids stepping up.

So far as I can ascertain, the children did love their parents - they just didn't think that they had any kind of moral obligation to help out. (To be honest, I do often see that attitude on these boards .)

Childfree people should be given advantageous tax rates for not burdening the state with the cost of children!

I like this idea

Ok so in the context of what you said it makes more sense. Children can be on the hook for parental care. Childless people don’t have that so this is their replacement.

I wonder what happens if children die?

The AIBU/YANBU voting is based on a false concept though.

YABU - German Health Minister is being unreasonable, it's not kids responsibility to look after elderly parents and is unfair to penalise child free people

In Germany adult children can be held responsible for and required to contribute towards their elderly parents' care. That means this potential scheme will fill a gap in their system where partial care funding cannot be recouped from childless people..

My aunt didn't have kids. She spent years caring for my grandad completely unpaid and indeed saved a fortune for the state. Her brothers all had kids. They did nothing, literally nothing. Under this proposal, my aunt would be penalised, her brothers not. Those who don't have kids are more likely to do elder care because siblings with kids are too busy to do it. This seems very ill thought through.