To think that Scarlett's first 2 children are one of the most overlooked bits of Gone With The Wind?

[Jane379]

I was rereading it a few days ago and it struck me how at the end, Scarlett is totally focused on getting Rhett back, nothing else. What happens to poor Wade & Ella afterwards are anyone's guess - especially as Melanie has died and Rhett seems to have checked out, and they were previously acting as surrogate parents. I suppose Mammy would probably end up looking after them?
It's hardly Scarlett's fault that she was expected to have kids despite no desire to, but she should have treated them better once they were born. I think the film toned down her attitude to them a lot, probably because it was seen as too shocking and damaged her heroine sstatus.A retelling in retrospect by Wade or Ella would be an interesting spin-off idea...

Rhett seems a pretty negative parental figure too, I think he's often assessed too positively & romanticised. Unbelievable he had Bonnie jumping like that at only 4,..the whole thing with him & Bonnie was weird, at the end he essentially says he treated her as a substitute for Scarlett.

AIBU?

The early scene when she throws an ornament at the wall after Ashley turns her down and up gets Rhett Butler off the sofa is one of my favourite scenes in literature.

Yes, it's almost unbearable to watch Seryozha turn from a lively, happy, confident boy into a miserable, repressed child. And it's heartbreaking to think that Annie will follow the same path, since Karenin takes over raising her after Anna's death.

Tolstoy definitely loves Levin, his alter ego. He also approves of Kitty who is well on her way to becoming the ideal Tolstoyan woman, as well as poor long-suffering Dolly.

Kitty is the Natasha Rostova of Anna Karenina. Both similar to his own wife. Funnily enough he grew to absolutely HATE his own wife in later years

In the book it's explained that she stays with Melanie and protect her because she had promised Ashley that she would. She knew that if she bailed on Melly and let her die, Ashley would never forgive her. Though definitely heroic, her actions don't have selfless motives.

He's abandoned all the women hasn't he.

Yes but he didn’t have much choice as he and all physically fit men of fighting age were expected to go and fight in the Civil War.
He came back as soon as he could.

Thank you, it's great being able to discuss it so much after a reread.

Thanks for the rec too, I'll try to read as soon as I can. It's interesting to think over whether an omniscient narrator should be taken as representing the author's views or as a separate character almost to help immerse the reader, as you say.

I suppose I think probably the comments on slavery, the KKK etc probably do reflect Mitchell 's actual views- the narratorial comments on Scarlett do seem to reflect her actual views, and Mitchell would hardly be unusual if she bought into the whole Lost Cause etc ideas and belief in racial hierarchy which remained pretty entrenched in a lot of the South until the 1970s. She also seemed happy with the film which in some ways is even more positive about the South (the over the top prologue about 'this pretty world' is more syrupy than Mitchell, who does get pretty forthright about the restrictions on women)

I will admit I don't know a huge amount about Mitchell though, there's a bio called Southern Daughter I want to read. I have read the Molly Haskell book about the film which is interesting and does give some info, but mainly focuses on the film.

Yes, Grandma Fontaine is probably one of the sharpest (and bravest) characters! I suppose she's the kind of side chatacter who films often cut though...in a way the ideal would have maybe been a longer series to fit more in.

Will Benteen is good too. At least that way Suellen has someone trustworthy by her side (I never knew what she saw in Frank Kennedy anyway). His eulogy for Gerald made me cry. One thing I particularly missed in the film was that you get much more backstory on Scarlett's parents, Ellen's lost love, Gerald's childhood etc but of course they couldn't fit it all in.

That's true....Ashley does seem to admire Scarlett's strength. He doesn't see her that clearly though (eg. When he says Rhett's brutalised her when she becomes a tough businesswoman).

Who owned Tara after Gerald died? There’s no mention of a will - unless it was left to all three sisters.

If it wasn't for Scarlett then Ashley, Aunt Pittypat and everyone at Tara would've starved to death. But instead of ever thanking her, all they do is judge her for not being ladylike and going into business.

Scarlett owned Tara because she paid off the loans on it and became its legal proprietor. I think Gerald died intestate.

However, Scarlett let Suellen live in Tara with Will while she herself lived in Atlanta.

I cannot remember the first two children being in the film at all. I thought they had been omitted as not essential to the story and the book is very long. I can never quite decide if it was rape and in the film Scarlett is singing happily the next morning and thinks all has been put right in the marriage until Rhett says otherwise.
We did To Kill A Mockingbird for O level and our teacher suggested GWTW to explain the context of the history of segregation and slavery, which it did. I choose to think Scarlett was a survivor and would be ok with or without Rhett

There was a third sister too, Careen who went into a convent I think.
We are not told about a will or lack of it. Maybe Scarlett got it as eldest or all three girls together as joint owners until Scarlett saved it with Frank’s money

Yes, I loved Carreen in the book. She was so sweet and Scarlett was jealous of her turning out so beautiful and getting her "beau" (one of the Tarleton twins). I always wanted Carreen to snap out of it and get together with Will.

She never loved Frank but he was secure and steady and probably thrilled to have a pretty young girl. I did always wonder why a pretty O'Hara girl wasn't more interested in men nearer her age, but she wasn't much younger than Scarlett... I guess she was outshone and all the young men around them were too into Scarlett for Suellen to get anywhere.

Sue-Ellen is also about 15 at the start of the book and Frank is at least early 30s! But given that Ellen married around that age, and to a man about 25 years older than her, perhaps she thought that was the norm. Though isn't there something in the book about Sue-Ellen wanting to tempt one of the Tarleton twins away from Scarlett at the Twelve Oaks barbecue?

Grandma Fontaine, whose family had been killed in front of her in the Creek uprising, told Scarlett to be careful to not become hard and bitter after her experiences. It foreshadowed Scarlett pushing everyone (Rhett included) away when they reveal a weakness. She may be a survivor but that’s a lonely place to be.

Anyway, there are some interesting perspective about motherhood in chapter 56 (after Rhett leaves following Melly's reception). After Rhett tells her off for being a bad mother, she's starts feeling bad about not having bonded with her first two children. Then she discovered she's pregnant (the pregnancy that she loses when feeling down the stairs). She's actually looking forward to having a child and later on feels sad about losing that pregnancy. I think she's about 25 years old by then so perhaps a bit more mature.

Suellen wasn't as pretty or charming as Scarlett and was always jealous of the interest men showed Scarlett. Frank was the only one interested in Suellen, so she went with him.

I have loved this book since a teenager and I’m going to reread it.
I love Scarlett’s fighting spirit even though she isn’t the most likeable person and literally uses people but with Frank Kennedy , she flirted and pursued him after she found out he was financially sound. She did it all for Tara really. I won’t think of it now, tomorrow is another day. I use that mentality quite a bit in life.
Wade and Ella are not in the film, I think the film would have run to 6 hours if everything had been included.
Back in the day for my GCSE English, we had to write an extra chapter to be included in any book and yes, I wrote an extra chapter for GWTW! A story in Rhett’s past !
And so loved Vivian Leigh as Scarlett.

Do we think Suellen would have seen Tara and her family right if she had married Frank? Scarlett certainly didn't; that's why she did what she did. It did always seem weird to me that Frank never tried to contact Suellen after hearing about her supposed engagement elsewhere. Scarlett was definitely worried that that might happen.

I love both the film and the book, its one of my favourites. It’s on HBO max if anyone’s looking for it.

It did always seem weird to me that Frank never tried to contact Suellen after hearing about her supposed engagement elsewhere. Scarlett was definitely worried that that might happen.

I agree. There may not have been emails and iPhones but people communicated nonetheless. You’d have thought Frank & Suellen would have written letters to one another.

The book does mention that Suellen is a terrible correspondent who loves receiving letters but hates writing them, so for the time until Scarlett and Frank marry, Scarlett is worried Suellen might write to him but is hopeful that she won't. Still, I can't believe Frank didn't look into it at all. And didn't he somehow find out afterwards?

I guess it's part of his weakness and passivity. He just accepts what Scarlett tells him and doesn't do anything proactive to find out more, especially when Scarlett gives him an easy out by offering herself instead. He's generally a path of least resistance guy, although he does go out to fight the men who attacked Scarlett. I think he wouldn't really have had a choice about that, though... old Atlanta code wouldn't allow anything else and even Ashley went out to do it too.

I think in the book, Rhett even says something along these lines when he goes to propose to Scarlett. Not these exact words, but something like "he had agency, he made his choices". Misinformed choices, yes, but it really wouldn't have been difficult to make inquiries about Suellen.

The book does mention that Suellen is a terrible correspondent who loves receiving letters but hates writing them, so for the time until Scarlett and Frank marry, Scarlett is worried Suellen might write to him but is hopeful that she won't. Still, I can't believe Frank didn't look into it at all. And didn't he somehow find out afterwards
@ThatCyanCat
Oh yes, I’d forgotten that.

I guess it's part of his weakness and passivity.
Yes, and also Scarlett was a very attractive woman and he was probably very flattered. Also I guess he was hurt by Suellen.
I agree though, it’s slightly implausible.