To think that Scarlett's first 2 children are one of the most overlooked bits of Gone With The Wind?

[Jane379]

I was rereading it a few days ago and it struck me how at the end, Scarlett is totally focused on getting Rhett back, nothing else. What happens to poor Wade & Ella afterwards are anyone's guess - especially as Melanie has died and Rhett seems to have checked out, and they were previously acting as surrogate parents. I suppose Mammy would probably end up looking after them?
It's hardly Scarlett's fault that she was expected to have kids despite no desire to, but she should have treated them better once they were born. I think the film toned down her attitude to them a lot, probably because it was seen as too shocking and damaged her heroine sstatus.A retelling in retrospect by Wade or Ella would be an interesting spin-off idea...

Rhett seems a pretty negative parental figure too, I think he's often assessed too positively & romanticised. Unbelievable he had Bonnie jumping like that at only 4,..the whole thing with him & Bonnie was weird, at the end he essentially says he treated her as a substitute for Scarlett.

AIBU?

It’s ages since I’ve seen it @XelaM but I think it is when Bonnie’s birth is announced. You very briefly see wade and Ella playing. (It was actually my mum who noticed as when I read it in my teens I commented that they weren’t in the film and she drew my attention to that part!)

I see what you mean...

This bit seems like the narrator though: 'It was the large number of outrages on women and the ever-present fear for the safety of their wives and daughters that drove Southern men to cold and trembling fury and caused the Ku Klux Klan to spring up overnight. And it was against this nocturnal organization that the newspapers of the North cried out most loudly, never realizing the tragic necessity that brought it into being'

The narrator is quite interesting ad they will often comment on Scarlett, her lack of analysis of situations etc , so there is a clear separation. In some ways a bit like Jane Austen's narrative style where the narrator seems like a distinct voice with their own opinions etc

I did (and do) want to focus on the kids but I'm interested in the Civil War and don't mind seguing a bit. I do want to primarily focus on the kids though...

Goggling it does seem they were cut. I think the somewhat heroic image of Scarlett/Vivien Leigh in the film would have have been affected if they had included much of Wade & Ella. Imagine the scene with Rhett kissing Scarlett as Atlanta burns with Wade then cutting in with being 'fwightened '.

Incidentally, what do people think about Scarlett being abandoned with pregnant Melanie by Rhett to get back to Tara on her own while he goes to fight? Later she thinks it' OK as he 'knew I'd get through ' but how could he?

@Jane379 many times I've heard a mil say things about their son that sounds like a surrogate husband

@Jane379 he took them as far as he could and thought they were left at a safe spot. He hardly went off gambling.
I think the children aspect is a bit boring in this scenario as well.

I think Scarlett is single minded ,feisty and brave but also extremely self centred and selfish, for me this was reflected in her lack of interest and care in her children , possibly including Bonnie to some degree.
I don't feel it was overlooked in the book ,it was quite obvious early on that all that mattered to Scarlett was Scarlett and her obsession with Ashley.

I’m trying to think of an equivalent! I guess it was maybe the default position at the time. It’s entirely possible they were her views, but I do think if you’re writing a novel set in the past you do have to embrace those views to a certain extent to get into that mindset. One of the reasons I don’t like An Inspector Calls (apart from the fact I’ve taught it 10000 times) is that the illegitimate pregnancy is presented sympathetically and with compassion, when in fact this would never have been the case. I was reading a Helen Forrester novel not long ago and domestic violence was treated with indifference and largely shrugged off, but that was true of the society she was writing about and if we are to be immersed in that society for the sake of the novel then I guess I think we have to not just understand the attitudes but be immersed in them.

@followtheswallow "It’s ages since I’ve seen it ** but I think it is when Bonnie’s birth is announced. You very briefly see wade and Ella playing"

okay, I feel if I'm going mad

When is the birth of Bonnie announced? And to whom and by whom please?

Wade and Ella are not in the film. I will stake more than an ice lolly on this. < looks around for something to bet>

I’m going to have to watch it again! What a shame

No, there’s definitely a scene and I’m sure it’s just before or around when Bonnie is born where you briefly see a boy and a girl playing.

There is a scene where a little girl and a little boy are playing, but it’s after Bonnie’s birth, before Rhett takes her to London. Melanie’s son and Bonnie are playing together, I’m willing to bet on that.

I wish I could watch it again. If anyone finds it streaming anywhere could they share where it is, please?

But isn't the point of an Inspector Calls that the inspector is an otherworldly figure criticising 1910s mores? Mrs Birling is certainly not kind to the pregnant Eva.

I think you could rent on Apple or Amazon Prime. Also BFI.

I can't understand why people keep saying Scarlett is flawed ? Who and which character isn't, she saves mellys life not once but twice !
What would have happened to anyone at tara if it wasn't for Scarlett bravery and courage ?
Is melly in flawed because she cant save herself or those around her ?
What about Ashley ?
He's abandoned all the women hasn't he ? It's Rhett whose been around more and kept them all going with the blockage running !!

I've just started listening to the podcast and I'm.gobsmaked at how they phrased selfish Scarlett wanting the doctor to go and help melly when thousands of men are dying ?
Women died in child birth so I guess that was ok to loose a valueless female in childbirth bringing in the new generation ? Selfish Scarlett ?
And melly does have a terrible birth and becomes very very ill !!

Vivien Leigh is also in Anna karina.
Stunning film .
Anna was also a flawed character as we all are.

Thank you @Jane379. I’ll check those out.

@blossomtoes
It's on now TV

She's an appalling mother. Rhett is actually a pretty good stepdad, he absolutely takes them on when he marries her. He says he'll come back often enough to keep gossip down so I think between him and Mammy, the kids will be as ok as they can be given their awful mother and loss of their half sister (I don't think the book gives any idea of whether they're close). He supports his son with Belle despite having no interest in him and disliking him, even; he's a better stepfather than father. He spoiled his daughter rotten but as he says, it was displaced love for Scarlett that he knew she'd never accept.

Margaret Mitchell said that Melanie was the actual heroine of the book.

@tsmainsqueeze we know now how powerful crushes can be in the teen years ,somerhng to do with chemistry and psychology ?
He made this indelible impression on her and she couldn't shake it esp with him married to melly and at close quarters.
All the other other men seem stupid don't they blindly going into the war

She's also extremely young to have a child and yea to a man she didn't like.
I imagine millions of young girls did didn't they ! Love and marriage was still a new concept.

It happens today people men and women have kids then abandon them and move on .

@ThatCyanCat menianie is the hopeful religious figure isn't she but she would be dead twice over without Scarlett but mellys goodness and kindness is the hope in the darkness all around she makes us want society to live on because we can be "kind".
Rhett had a son with belle ??

Maybe that's what attracted Rhett to scarlet he knows she is a free spirit and doesn't want him the ultimate rules girls when all around are swooning

No, but then there’s no way she would have been or been expected to be. That’s why it annoys me: they act as if she has done a terrible thing but by the standards of society at the time she behaved normally. (And Eva did lie which is another thing that annoys me about the play!)

True.

I think Scarlett is a wonderful character and she does save so much , the house,
her family ,Melanie ,but as she does so i don't think it's out of the goodness of her heart ,in fact i think these things she has to do / save are actually an inconvenience to her.
Melanie is strong too in an entirely different way to Scarlett , if anyone is flawed i would say Ashley , he is weak.
After this interesting thread i think i will read it again .

P,S i think my comments about inconvenience for Scarlett shouldn't have included Tara , she was passionate about her home.