To think telling a child to "cover up" because of male teachers is ewwww?

[FreeeeeeeeFreeFalling]

DD and her mates were wearing fairly standard vest tops at school for an own clothes day. All dressed exactly the same. DD singled out and told to cover up (I suspect because she is slightly larger chested than the others), which she found humiliating. She was told "there are male teachers around" as the reason!
They are 16.
I kind of think if male teachers can't keep their eyes to themselves, they shouldn't be teachers, right?!

AIBU to think this is a bit off?

I suspect it’s a very deep lack of self-worth and brain washing by a lobby that actually enjoys seeing so much flesh. Utterly ironic.

i still remember thst photo of Jennifer Lawrence shivering in a racy gown in London posing with men wearing coats. Sbd her saying that shes ‘comfortable’. Unfortunately these are ‘role models’.

Would you feel the same about somebody taking a dump in the corner of a classroom? How would you react to that?

Please can you open your eyes a little. You don't know what it is like to be a teenage boy, it's not about them attacking young women. Boys get erections and sexual thoughts frequently. Imagine being 13 years old and ample cleavage and skirts short enough to show knickers and butt cheeks waltzing around like they own the place. Why should they have to constantly look to the left when walking up stairs and how embarrassing to have to try and hide their sexuality and blushes. It's like FHM or even soft porn, somewhere that should be a safeplace, primarily for education. These girls know exactly what they are doing and boys need protection too.

There would be outrage if they were strolling around in bottome revealing hotpants or showing off their penis bulges. Same should apply to females, especially children.

This is senior school, not likely to be pre pubescent children.

Whoever made that comment shouldn’t have mentioned male teachers . But everyone , both boys and girls should dress appropriately for school and in my opinion vest tops with cleavage aren’t appropriate . Your dd shoudnt have been singled out like that , it’s humiliating and unprofessional

All schools have guidance for non uniform days! Very standard to not accept vest tops.

I have a teenage boy. And I know all about erections and wet dreams. I also know about educating him that what a girl or woman wears does not mean he has a right to shout things at them, talk about them like they are asking for it due to their clothes, or that women are responsible for men attacking them due to hearing said clothes. Sarah everard was attacked while wearing winter clothes, what women wear has nothing to do with how men act. No where did the OP say that her daughter was showing her 'knickers or butt'. You are making that up to fit your narrative. I think that all students should adhere to school uniform, because that's the standards of the school, but not because we need to protect poor boys gazes from the sexy legs. What are these boys going to grow up to. And yes actually, they shouldn't overly stare at people and make them uncomfortable. Thats part of being a nice human. And men dress in a similar way. It was a nice day yesterday and I saw many men walking around the town, two in a coffee shop, with no shirts on. So let's not pretend men dont do the same thing. And if a man ia wearing cycling shorts, I am sophisticated enough not to look at his 'Penis bulge', and also not to think he is asking for it, which was the point of my orgonal post.

🙇🏻‍♀️🙇🏻‍♀️🙇🏻‍♀️

I'm a teacher ...

People are objecting to what used to be called 'the short skirt' argument, i.e. that back in the day rapists would defend their attacks by claiming that 'she was wearing a short skirt so was asking for it.' Thankfully, we're all a bit more aware now.

However, the thing with none uniform days is that they're still days in school and clothing must be appropriate for school / the workplace. It's not fancy dress. It's not club wear. It should be what you'd wear to the office on casual Friday. If it looks like something you'd see on 'Night Coppers', then it's not appropriate for school.

In terms of what teachers see and don't see. School desks have no modesty panels. Most kids still sit like children with absolutely no sense of modesty. Just the way it is. Moving around school, particularly going up stairs, involves 100s of young people densely packed together. There's maybe a couple of inches between you and the people on the next step. Again, just the way it is. But this is why 'appropriate for school' isn't the same as 'street wear'. Because if a few dozen people in the street were inches from your arse, you'd wonder what the hell was going on. In other words, you can't take something from one environment and transplant it into another environment as if they're the same environment.

The way the message was communicated was poor and no child should be singled out.

That said, as a secondary teacher of 26 years, I have felt uncomfortable around how teens dress. It has been only in the last decade that rolled up skirts (which would have been thigh high back in the day) are now sitting just under the knicker line (I blame the Love Island etc but that’s another thread!). Skirts are so short that I can see san pro and thongs and I wish I could say something but I don’t - previous members of staff have been accused of body shaming. I hate non uniform day as boundaries are pushed even further. One non uniform day we had a girl dressed in faux leather dom gear! Teens wearing vest tops outside of school wouldn’t even be in my radar but when I’m leaning over a student to help them, I don’t want to be looking down into their cleavage. Likewise I’m sure my students and colleagues don’t wish to see my knickers or cleavage.

Oh bullshit. What about if teachers went to school dressed like this? The woman on the Asda checkout?

Time and place. School is not the place. Just bloody parent your children to understand nuance FFS.

The point isn’t irrelevant because you yourself said that as long as genitals are covered it’s ok

Most American schools have a fairly strict dress code, which seems to apply only to the girls. No short shorts, no strappy tops, but boys wore vest tops and shorts quite happily without being told off. DD got sent home to change once as her shorts were slightly shorter than the tips of her fingers when she put her arms by her side.

The DDs went to the British School in Brussels when they were little. The dress code there was pretty lax but was overhauled when a couple of the sixth formers turned up in bikini tops and very short shorts.

I wonder what people would think if a teacher turned up to school wearing a cropped vest top and a skirt rolled so short you could see her butt cheeks. Everyone ok with that?

Men are not boys and well done for being able to control your son's erections & blushes 👏.

As I said it wasn't about boys attacking girls and it's also not about them shouting things or catcalling. Many lads wouldn't have the confidence to do that anyway.

I never suggested that OP's daughter was showing her arse cheeks. The conversation had moved on, like these threads tend to.

In a perfect world, no one would care what anyone else wore. As we don't live in a perfect world, it is useful for teenagers to know how clothes are perceived by others. They need adults to tell them this in an honest way. That way they can make an informed decision about what to wear.

Having said that, I would never comment on what someone else's child was wearing. As much as I like the children I teach, I really don't care what they wear and I think it is the parents responsibility to worry about how their children dress.

it’s a school, not the beach or the park.
its about respect.

This is such an interesting debate.

It's not about male teachers feeling uncomfortable but it is partly about protecting them from potential malicious accusations. They are in a professional environment where they find themselves in a room with female minors. Should one of those female minors chose to accuse them of looking they could potentially lose their job and gain a criminal record. I worked in a school where the girls wore their skirt so inappropriately short you could see their knickers and they would sit wog their legs apart and not really tucked under the desk. Even as a female teacher it is awkward to talk to girls when they are exposing themselves in this way. For those of you who keep saying it's only a body we need to normalise it, it is not normal to look at a child's / teens genitalia, in fact it is illegal. Skimpy clothing makes the chances of that much more likely.

I've witnessed on multiple occasions students weaponising their body exposure to avoid sanctions for something else. Situations where male staff were trying to apply the school behaviour code. E.g Teacher tells a girl to stop pushing others on the stairs, girl instantly responds with "Ew are you looking up my skirt you Paedo" or the teacher tries to talk to a girl about their lack of classwork and instantly gets acused of looking down her top. Obviously a minority but once it starts girls catch on that this is a good way to embarrass and diminish they teachers authority.

Vest tops and crop tops are not appropriate for a school environment.

This all day long.

On teenage girls on non uniform days.

The cool and comfortable argument is poor. It is far more cool and comfortable to wear something like a loose, say linen, top. I’ve read that for years and ignored it but discovered on holiday recently that it is true. I actually love a vest top but sooo uncomfortable clinging to your skin in a hot environment. Mine came back in the case, unworn, destined for eBay as they were new.

This is a great insight & I agree.

When you say men can’t control themselves, what do you mean in this particular context? I feel a bit sorry for male teachers in this regard, if they even glance at a female pupil dressed like this they risk being accused of being a pervert.
I’ve seen this in the gym, a young woman came in a couple of weeks ago dressed in little more than a bikini then started screaming at someone who had apparently glanced in her direction. Just dress decently

Totally agree with this. Working in a secondary school I see it all the time.