To think some older women having tax payers funded ivf are hypocrites?

[Spiderbug]

There seems to be a substantial group of people who are ok with calling teen mums a waste of their tax money but then leave child bearing too late and expect the tax payers to foot the bill for their multiple ivf cycles which costs the tax payer up to 100 million a year.

Hypocrites!!!

Is this the 1960s? There’s millions of people who have abortions at 25/26/27 because they think they’re too young. Waiting until mid too late thirties before considering children is normal for a lot of people now you even see it on mumsnet people saying everyone in their social circle waits until 35 and they don’t know anyone younger with children.

Please get with the times and stop trying to gaslight.

Most of the mums on benefits weren’t teenagers when they had their children either but again they seem to get a pass. Teen mums are the drop in the ocean compared to all other adults claiming benefits

I know the "gaslighting" or "deliberate obtuseness" is what you thought about my post when I said I don't know anyone who has dissed teen mums for being a drain on tax payers, or my examples of the teen mums I've known who have been great mums and not a drain on anyone, and I've certainly never ever ever heard any of the women in my life who've used IVF (for a range of reasons) bitch or moan about teen pregnancies. The comment this other poster has made about your bubble is because you're pushing back on anyone who says "nah, never heard that, it's not the issue you think it is" rather than you going "oh, that's interesting, I guess there's a whole variety of opinions and experiences out there, I'd better have a think about who I'm hearing this chat from and who I'm surrounding myself with".

Because you were not a teen mum and neither were most on here disagreeing so it makes sense you’d be unaware of people’s opinions on teen mums. You literally have no reason to care.

If I had a gigantic wart on my Face id be more aware of people’s thoughts on facial warts than someone who didn’t have that issue and has never even had to think about it.

Source? For the fact you're quoting that there's millions of abortions in people's mid 20s and the reasons people have had them?

No one is gaslighting you. We haven't told you that YOU haven't experienced disrespect from SOME people. We've just told you that WE have not come across it.

Read my most recent comment

@Spiderbug the rental market is so bad where I live me and my boyfriend were evicted from 2 houses suddenly when landlord announced he was selling on 2 separate occasions leaving me forced to move in with my parents for months on end in my late 20s/early 30s and commuting to work from a huge distance .I met my partner when we were young but we didn’t try for a baby until we had housing sorted which involved saving for a deposit and buying somewhere. There are basically a handful of rental properties available on the entire island of Ireland and thousands of homeless families already filling hotels and b&bs. Do you think I should have just bulled on ahead and risked becoming homeless and having to quit my job and burden my parents with childcare and a baby ? I mean I would have considered trying younger if circumstances were different. You act like older women are just drifting along being selfish for not trying younger . What do you expect people to do ?

I wasn't, no. But I'm the same poster who grew up in the "impoverished" area (your words not mine) where a LOT of my friends from school were. And a lot of them went onto benefits and never came off, some didn't.

They still didn't get the level of disrespect you're saying is rife everywhere.

I'm also a person with opinions who talks to other people with opinions. Not come across people with the opinions on teen mums you say is incredibly common.

Get with the times ? You must be joking . The reality is that in these times young women who want a baby at a time when they have stability in their relationships and their lives can have abortions if they get pregnant and aren’t ready and thank god for that . If anyone is in the 1960s it is you, thinking that all women who want babies should drop everything such as careers, travel and life experience to have a baby in their 20s even if in unsuitable circumstances. And please look up the meaning of the word “gaslight” I know it’s a popular buzz word at the minute but you aren’t using it correctly.

You have no idea what’s going on in the heads of people you went to school with. Personally I don’t tell people in real life about how I’ve been treated over being a teen mum.

And again you talk to people with opinions? Good for you it’s not like teen mums are a hot topic unless theres one in the room. It’s not Israel and Palestine or Russia and Ukraine

I'm sorry, I have no idea what's going on with you or teen mum's, but you know exactly what conversations I've had, in my whole life?

Own. Bubble.

I would hazard that someone as happy and content with their lot as you claim you are would never have started this thread. And then kept coming back to it, like a dog with a bone

I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. You’ve said you have opinions and talk to other people with opinions and teen mums don’t come up in your conversation. Well why the hell would they unless you are a teen mum yourself. As if your lack of conversations about teen mums is proof a lot of people don’t dislike them

I guess all the people who treated me like shit didn’t exist because ipsydaisydoo has never had a philosophical discussion with them

• Aged 20–24:
• ∼30%to 35% of conceptions end in abortion.
• Aged 25–29:
• ∼20%to 25% of conceptions end in abortion.

Cant say for sure the reasons why each and every one of those were done but you are lying if you claim there aren’t a hell of a lot of people who think their 20s are not for kids

Of course they aren’t for kids for a lot of people . What’s wrong with that ?

This is in response to people saying that most older parents have been trying for years and years and didn’t intentionally leave it too late. When we know this isn’t true except for a minority of people

@Spiderbug you have outlined how you think university degrees are useless and how you know people who regret going. So what ? You think all women who want kids should not allow themselves a higher education or sort themselves out with housing and a stable relationship before having a baby? Yep the world would be a great place altogether if that’s what every woman who wanted to be a mother was expected to do. it would really benefit the state woudn't it ? I’m glad everything worked out for you I really am but not everyone is as lucky and that much is clear from the amount of young mothers living in homeless b&bs where I’m from

I’m not lucky I worked hard to get where I am now and I actually also lived in a similar place to a b and b when I first had my child. im not saying everyone has to live their life like me.

My comments about university students were in response to someone saying I’m “bitter” I didn’t go. Which is more outdated nonsense from someone living in the 60s. AI is taking many jobs and it’s making uni degrees worthless many many graduates regret even going and are struggling to get even minimum wage jobs

I grew up in the teen pregnancy capital of Europe. About a third of the girls in my form were pregnant before or during GCSEs, and there were two girls in the year below who had left to have their babies in Yr 8. One came back. It was a national crisis at the time. AND STILL the only people I have ever heard ‘moaning’ about teenage mothers are politicians and the Daily Mail. Mostly people expressed worry or sadness. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen - everything is possible - and young mums are stigmatised and written off. But I’ve never heard an adult woman bitching about a teen mum and then going on to have IVF. And I suspect you haven’t either.

Source?

How many men do you think actively want to have children in their 20s?

I absolutely have.

The daily mail is a newspaper it wouldn’t sell if people didn’t buy it and people wouldn’t buy it if they didn’t like/agree with a lot of what’s inside it.

Again those girls you know probably did also get a lot of shit but just didn’t tell anyone. Offset slightly by the fact you stick out less if you’re surrounded by similar people so saying you lived in the teenage pregnancy capital of Europe isn’t the gotcha you think it is.

IVF is a LOT more expensive than you are suggesting here. It is also the epitome of entitlement to suggest that it is morally better somehow to spend public money on infertile people's desire to have a child than on actual existing children's shelter, food and so on. This just basically sums up our society: I want, I am entitled, I get and forget everyone else.

It’s definitely not a gotcha, it was really depressing watching my friends miss out on things, be in short lived relationships with shitty older boys, and I missed being able to do things with my friends.

It’s amazing that you know the hidden lives and experiences of all teen mums, and all older women who have IVF. Maybe just let your own personal issues go, everyone has had some unfair commentary about something.

It has been repeatedly pointed out that the overall provision of IVF on theNHS is not huge, one cycle in most areas and none if you are over 40. It’s a tiny part of the NHS’s overall budget. What part of that are you not getting?