“You’re not going on your own” - caring or controlling? AIBU?

[Samuelthespaniel]

My husband and I had words over the possibility of a solo trip (it was just an idea) yesterday and I think he may be the unreasonable party but I thought I’d ask in case I am genuinely missing something important here.

For context, married 4 years, no kids. Basically I brought up the idea of a city break I’d like to go on. We normally travel together with the exception of when I go on weekend trips with a friend or family or for work (which so far has only involved flying to a neighbouring country where I have family).

When I first mentioned it yesterday he essentially said “off with you” but his reaction later makes me think that this earlier comment was said because he thought I was joking. DH has no holidays left to take this year, I can WFH. I was considering doing a 3-4 night stay in this city and doing all of the things that I wouldn’t like to bore him with when we travel together eg taking myself off for a facial, some activities (think craft type things, etc). Great, I thought. I can WFH from the hotel and afterwards check out the landmarks, some shopping, etc. it would be my first solo trip in the sense that it would be the first time I’ve travelled alone purely for leisure for that amount of time, but I was looking forward to it and thought it would actually be good for my personal development.

Spoke about it again last night as I told DH about things that I don’t think he’d particularly enjoy doing that I was looking at doing in the city, and he said yeah but you’d need someone to watch your back there. I said I’m sure it would be fine, it’s a relatively safe city by any standard. He said “I’m not restricting you, you just can’t go on your own. Why don’t you wait til next year and see if (name of friend) can go with you. I said it’s not really the point, my friend might not want to go and I was particularly enjoying the prospect of going by myself. I

said I don’t see what it’s really got to do with you (perhaps this was wrong in hindsight). He said we’re married, we do everything together, to which I said that plenty of married people solo travel and he said “I don’t care, I don’t have to worry about them”. I said well ultimately it’s my choice and I have autonomy over my own actions.

He said that if I ignore his feelings then he’ll remember this for again and that we’ll have a big problem when I get back and that’s all he’s going to say, and that it’s not a threat. I replied by saying it does sound like a bit of a threat really. He said he didn’t want to hear anything else from me for the rest of the night, which also felt a bit patronising and like I was being chastised.

I should also mention that at some point in the conversation he asked why I needed to go away so often and I already go away 3-4 times a year with him and what’s the rush and do I want to just take a year out and travel or something and if that’s the case go off and do it (although I don’t see how that would be fine by him but a 3-4 city break isn’t, but anyway). I said that no, I don’t want to take a year out to go travelling and I’m perfectly happy with my life the way it is, but he said the signs are there that I want to be away all the time. I do like to go away, but it’s not to escape anything as such, I really do just like to see new places and thought it would be a good opportunity. I mean, I don’t question why he goes to the gym 3-4 times per week. I don’t feel like it’s any of my business. But I think I should be allowed to explore my hobbies as well.

Sorry this was so long! But does anyone have any experience of this? Did you go anyway? Did you decide against it?

OP he’s talking about respect within the marriage and checking with each other - but isn’t that what you did ? You were thinking about doing this but didn’t have any specific plans, so mentioned it casually. What’s his problem - in the way that you brought it up, the words you used ? I ask because if his idea of being respectful is ‘off with you’ and ‘I don’t want to hear from you for the rest of the night’ you really do have a problem. OK, so you vetoed the Amsterdam trip, but l think that’s different in that there were legitimate concerns and he must have seen it from your point of view if he agreed not to go ?

If he’s got stag trips planned alone, what’s his justification for him being able to go, while he’s voicing thoughts such as ‘you’re not going alone’ when you essentially suggest the same thing. On a stag do with a load of drunken out of control mates, I don’t necessarily think there’s any safety in numbers, if you going solo is his concern.

I've read your updates, but they make little difference as far as I'm concerned. He threatened you with consequences. Not a veiled threat, an actual threat. I wouldn't be able to get past that and I'd be seriously reconsidering the relationship. He thinks he can dictate to you and punish you. This is not a man to have children with.

Not okay. I do exactly this sort of trip once a year usually and have done so forever. We have dc. I don’t want a family holiday. I want to relax and go to a museum and eat at nice restaurants and read a book and go for a swim occasionally. So I leave dc at home with Dh and take myself off for a few days. Dh also gets to go do things he enjoys too at other times.

Absolutely no way would I tolerate anyone telling me I can’t travel. That said, Dh literally met me when I was living solo and working and travelling in Asia, so he knows this is how I am and this is the life he signed up for. He wouldn’t think of saying no. We just work out the childcare logistics between us.

I have to agree. A man that talks about respect within the marriage - as in OP’s update - but then talks to his life partner and equal in terms of ‘off with you’ and ‘I don’t want to hear from you for the rest of the night’ is a real cause for concern because clearly he doesn’t consider respect a two way street, so what else does he consider appropriate for himself but not for OP ? And absolutely not a man to have children with because they would undoubtedly be used as pawns for control and coercion.

"Sorry for confusion, but I wasn't asking for permission, I was informing you. Thank you for your concern, but I have got it. Please feel free to go on a similar trip solo too."

I go alone somewhere every couple of years. It is the best.

This. I go somewhere alone every few months, though! Absolutely lovely and restorative,

He thinks you would be safer if you didn’t go alone. What’s his justification ? And as he’s planning to attend a stag do away in the near future, ask him whether he thinks there’s any more safety in numbers when you’re in the company of blokes likely throwing caution to the wind in favour of getting totally wasted.

After your update on Amsterdam I think you do need to reflect and acknowledge you were being inappropriately controlling, whilst standing firm about the unacceptable way he has spoken to you recently.

In a monogamous relationship it's perfectly reasonable to object to strip clubs etc, and to your partner taking part in exploitation of other women. But to 'veto' his trip on safety grounds, as if he couldn't assess this himself? That's exactly what he's trying to do to you now!

Having said that, I couldn't tolerate a partner who thought he was responsible for my safety, if he really does think this, wtf? I think you need to unpick your responsibilities for each other and obligations to each other with him & be prepared to accept having overstepped the mark yourself in the past.

As well as him feeling some resentment about you vetoing his trip, is there also some embarrassment on his part? Do his mates know it was you who put a stop on the Amsterdam trip and does he now feel embarrassed about them knowing he can't stop you going away? That doesn't make his response to you ok, and it's immature at best, but it might mean safety is a bit of a red herring.

I would be booking the city break and a solicitor when I got back.
I'm law abiding but there is no way I'm going to be told what I can and can't do by anyone.

Before kids, there were a few times I told DH I was off for the weekend after I‘d booked the flights. Solo trips doing things he doesn’t enjoy. Sometimes I met up with a friend living in that city, sometimes I was completely alone.

Being charitable, is your OH someone who would never imagine going somewhere alone? Neither DH nor I had an issue with eating alone, going to the cinema alone or travelling alone, although we did all of that and more with each other and friends too.

We still do things alone now from time to time, although we talk it through and ask permission first as someone needs to be there for our child.

@Samuelthespaniel
If say, your husband was the one planning a trip on his own and you really wanted to be a part of that trip. If you were to say to him to delay going, would he delay the trip?
It is a difficult one, because he wants you to go with a friend, so he's not completely saying no you can't go.
I think before becoming annoyed with one situation, you need to look at the whole of your relationship if there are any other controlling events.

Is he perhaps projecting? I wouldn't feel comfortable going on a solo break, so I tried to talk my mum out of one, and felt really sorry for her going on her own. But she explained to me that it was fine, and she really enjoyed it. I should never have tried to talk her out of it, but I didn't want her to get there and realise she didn't want to be on her own.

Do you know the term “gaslighting” @Samuelthespaniel ? There are so many examples of it in your op.

He makes a statement, and then tells you that it means the opposite of what he has just said:

I’m not restricting you, you just can’t go on your own.

When you challenge him with an objective fact, he disregards it, or tells you that doesn’t count:

we’re married, we do everything together, to which I said that plenty of married people solo travel and he said “I don’t care, I don’t have to worry about them”

Or he refuses to listen and tries to shut you down completely:

He said he didn’t want to hear anything else from me for the rest of the night

He makes a threat that he won’t take responsibility for, but won’t retract, and tries to alter your perception of what he has literally just said:

we’ll have a big problem when I get back and that’s all he’s going to say, and that it’s not a threat.

Then the whole mind bending nonsense of not being able to go away for 3 days but crack on with taking a year off.

You cannot argue with someone like this. They just keep reinventing reality to support their perception of their own identity. There’s no solid point you can agree on, because anything can be re-interpreted to suit them.

We tend to assume good faith, and that the other person understands the nature of the world like we do. It’s very destabilising and exhausting to deal with this. You can end up thinking that whatever you wanted isn’t worth it, or feel you were unreasonable to want it in the first place.

Hmmmm. He is being controlling but so were you. I'd apologise for vetoing the trip and agree in the future both people can make up their own minds provided nothing is planned.

I don’t think that’s the issue. OP had legitimate reasons for not wanting him to go to Amsterdam on a stag do, and if he chose not to go, then he clearly understood her reasoning and whatever was behind it. There are no clear reasons for his objection to OP’s trip, other than she wants to go alone. He speaks to her as though she’s a child, rather than his equal partner, and now he’s treating her like a child to be reined in. That’s what’s unacceptable. And according to OP he’s planning to go on another stag trip in the near future - what’s his justification in thinking there’s any more safety in numbers in the company of out of control drunken ‘stags’ intent on getting wasted, than there is in a sober solo trip which mixes work and sight seeing ?

He said that if I ignore his feelings then he’ll remember this for again and that we’ll have a big problem when I get back and that’s all he’s going to say, and that it’s not a threat. I replied by saying it does sound like a bit of a threat really. He said he didn’t want to hear anything else from me for the rest of the night, which also felt a bit patronising and like I was being chastised.

Holy crap, I'd have gone straight to book the trip!

Yes and OPs update that she banned him from a trip because of safety concerns shows that it is actually quite unfair.

I think you need to go and reflect on your marriage whilst you are there.
He may just be jealous you have some leave left and he doesn't!!
A few days solo arty trip is very different to a stag do in Amsterdam!
There is a way of demonstrating care/concern for a person about safety etc that is very much loving and there is an unpleasant and controlling way too. Unfortunately I think your DH falls into the latter category.
My DH was a bit protective about what I did whilst pregnant but if he overstepped the mark I pushed back and he accepted it. I'm disabled now and my DH can be a bit negative about what I can manage but I shut it down straight away. He knows if he doesn't I will consider staying with him!
(I've been in an abusive relationship before, no children, but now need to consider what is best for myself as well as my children. Not saying my current relationship is abusive but certain boundaries are in place!!!)

In what world does someone get to tell you, a grown adult woman, that you can’t go somewhere on your own? In a controlled world; that’s where.
This is definitely controlling behaviour dressed up as “looking after you”.
You don’t need looking after you’re not a child.
I’d be telling him to fuck right off.

So were sooooooo unreasonable to have vetoed his Amsterdam trip, OP

You reap what you sow…

@Samuelthespaniel

Where is it that you're travelling to? Is it a remote eastern European city or something? It sounds less like concern for your safety though and more like control. Sounds though as if he's feeling left out, wants to come with you and is so used to doing everything together that he's being petulant because of that.

Maybe he has trust issues? He thinks you might have a quick fling with someone there...? Maybe he's basing his lack of trust on his own self....?

I know in my last relationship he had absolutely no issue with me travelling alone... then again, I've done it since I was a teenager. Turned out he actually didn't give many shits about me in the end... he couldn't have cared less if I'd ran away with a sexy local I reckon!

So.. he was equating you saying no to a trip because he and his friends get up to "unsavoury antics" and him saying no to you wanting to travel alone at all?

Oh yes, maybe you are naive. Not about single women in cities. About married men in cities.

Ah ha... just seen the comments about an Amsterdam stag do now.... yuk etc...... I think he doesn't trust you OP.

I skimmed and didn't realise that you actually vetoed his Amsterdam trip. You shot yourself in the foot there I'm afraid.

It doesn't absolve him from the threats and consequences thing at all. However, I do wonder how you worded your veto.

I wouldn't have asked my DH's permission, I'd have just told him I was going.