Have you ever met a child psychopath?

[TheJuryIsOut]

There's some debate about whether psychopaths are born like that or made as a consequence of their environment/upbringing. If they are born that way (which I believe they are) have you ever met one? What were the signs?

I say this because there is a child in my wider family who I think may be a psychopath, there has been signs from when he was very very young and as he moves through his teenage years things have only got worse. I can't get on board with it being an environment thing as no one else in the family behaves the way he does, it's quite terrifying to think that no matter what you do your child could still go on to do horrific things and not feel a jot of guilt.

What do you think? Are they born or made?

Maybe not a psychopath but I've seen very young children with behaviours that make me believe they could be serious offenders as teens/adults. Maybe a product of their poor upbringing, maybe something innate in them, maybe a bit of both.

One 6 year old boy that showed clear misogyny and sexualised language, talking about 'suck my dick' and constantly swearing/using insulting language towards female school staff. Also very violent behaviour towards children and staff and an absolute disregard for any rules. Very very worrying, I hate to think what was going on in his home life. But I remember thinking I will not be remotely surprised if by the time he's 16 he's a rapist.

And the diagnositc criteria has changed over time and will change again.

This was the most shocking nature/nurture book I’ve ever read. My eyes were popping. (The film of the book was rubbish IMO)

We need to talk about Kevin
by
Lionel Shriver

Which is what I meant. A comprehensive school or school similar in size.
Similar can be private, public, college, any educational institution of the same size.

Well maybe just ‘a school’ then. But I see what you mean .

Childrent cannot have a diagnosis of a physcopath until they reach adulthood. Can they show traits as they are younger? Absolutely. To initiate a diagnosis, professionals need to carry out assessments and find out their history which goes back to birth. It is very difficult to get a diagnosis of a physcopath, as the professionals will need to be certain the individual meet the requirements of the diagnosis. Physcopath symptoms can collerate with another mental healh disorder/illness.

its actually proven.

children who suffer frequent and/or severe ACEs (adverse childhood experiences) at a young age develop differently neurologically. Their brain is different and that can lead to some of the behaviours that cause violence.

It’s not an excuse - nothing excuses violence etc.

but it’s a reason/ explanation.

Just because you don’t like it doesn’t make it untrue!

Surely it's likely that you've never met one because they wouldn't be in your remit? Violent psychopaths won't usually display severe mental health issues, they are usually very clever at masking their psychopathy, they don't feel remorse so probably won't end up spiralling because of what they've done.

I think that sounds like ‘harm ocd’

Psychopathy is only diagnosed after age 18 as it is a personality disorder and personality has not developed until adulthood. There would be an argument for delaying this diagnosis until 25 for this reason. That doesn’t mean that signs are not there it’s just termed differently as emergent personality disorder. Often goes alongside attentional difficulties, attachment difficulties, callous and unemotional traits. These young people are often vulnerable and come from chaotic backgrounds. It would be wrong to saddle them with quite a damning diagnosis so early in life when they have so much growing to do, but that doesn’t mean that their vulnerabilities are not acknowledged by mental health professionals.

@stompythedinosaur I remember reading aboutsome sort of rehabilitation programme that therapists attempted with psychopaths. It backfired and made them 'better' at offending because they learned about their behaviours that were deemed unacceptable and marked them out, so they learned how to more effectively mask and manipulate, because they were, y'know, psychopaths who couldn't be rehabilitated.

I don't think anything is wrong with calling a child horrible. Horrible adults didn't just appear out of thin air

She never self-harmed!

I tried to read this and I have to say I found it really really disappointing and boring

No it means intrusive thoughts about harming others. But thats all they are, just intrusive thoughts, not desires.

I work in education and have unfortunately met quite a few concerning children.

Harm OCD is not self- harm, though i can see the confusion. It’s when you have unwanted thoughts about harming others that you would never do. It’s a very distressing disorde

Definitely met a few with potential to become one.

Where does the 50% figure come from? From everything I've read, anywhere between 1-5% of the general population meets the criteria for psychopathy...no where near 50%.

If you include sociopathy the population percentage is higher, but even combined, it doesn't come close to 50%.

I thought it was a fact that psychopaths were born without empathy?
I'm not an expert but I think we only ever here about the psychopaths so are violent, there are psychopaths who don't act violently even through they lack empathy.
A lot of children grow out of seemingly having no empathy as they did have empathy just a lack of impulse control

Everyone is talking about murderers.

I thought psychopathy was more akin to they would run you over because your in the way and they dont care.

But they wouldnt run you over in a rage thing because they care too little about you to be bothered to do that.

The latter being a ‘psycho’ person but not actually a psychoPATH

This sounds like intrusive thoughts and OCD.

From the ADAA site - Harmful intrusive thoughts are a core symptom of a subtype of OCD often called Harm OCD. These terrifying thoughts contradict your values, do not reflect your desires, and are highly treatable.

Poor girl being labelled a psychopath

Agreed

Your friend probably doesn’t know as much about the children’s home lives as she thinks she does, for a start - and there are many, many organic causes for dysfunctional behaviour other than psychopathy and a bad home life.

This thread showcases exactly why labels like “psychopath” are unhelpful. They are used as a way of othering people who offend, of distancing them from the rest of us, rather than trying to understand the varied and complex ways in which humans actually function.

The poster who was jumped on upthread for pointing out that the Bulger killers were damaged little boys, not monsters, was absolutely right. It’s vital that we advance our understanding of how people become violent, cruel, unable to relate to others etc, and we cannot do that if we fall into the “Hitler trap” of pretending that they were just a different species to start with. Engaging with the nature of their condition doesn’t diminish the horror of what they did.