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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Have you ever met a child psychopath?

518 replies

TheJuryIsOut · 17/05/2026 16:23

There's some debate about whether psychopaths are born like that or made as a consequence of their environment/upbringing. If they are born that way (which I believe they are) have you ever met one? What were the signs?

I say this because there is a child in my wider family who I think may be a psychopath, there has been signs from when he was very very young and as he moves through his teenage years things have only got worse. I can't get on board with it being an environment thing as no one else in the family behaves the way he does, it's quite terrifying to think that no matter what you do your child could still go on to do horrific things and not feel a jot of guilt.

What do you think? Are they born or made?

OP posts:
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MistressoftheDarkSide · 18/05/2026 09:24

takemetosnurch · 18/05/2026 09:04

Every time there's an 'I'm a psychopath - AMA!' thread on here, the poster always just sounds like someone who says 'I'm mad, me!' and bangs on about how much they hate small talk. Heavy adult goth vibes.

Edited

I've been following the thread as the older I get the more bemused and daunted I am in my quest to try and understand human psychology and behaviour. It's been very interesting and I have lots of thoughts, however, I don't feel qualified to contribute.

However, as an "adult goth" I'm intrigued by your post. Would love to understand your rationale for choosing to drop my sub culture into this highly emotive and fraught discussion. Please do extrapolate further, unless it is an unhelpful de-rail of an otherwise fascinating thread.

HeyHoHenryHippy · 18/05/2026 09:34

Imaginary86 · 17/05/2026 22:36

This case is so sad 😭

Following the murder, Paris was evaluated and met criteria for Conduct disorder which is another name for personality disorder or borderline personality disorder. He was a child on diagnosis @TheJuryIsOut @PinkyFlamingo

Edit to add @

VikingLady · 18/05/2026 09:35

It’s a difficult one.

I knew one who appeared to becoming a psychopath at five. Enjoyed slowly hurting younger, weaker children and scaring animals. It turned out they were actually massively traumatised by severe bullying at school that no one appeared to care about and was lashing out. When they were removed from the situation it all cleared up almost immediately. That was a decade ago and it absolutely has never appeared since. A really kind teen.

The ringleader of the bullies though…. She looks like a full on sociopath. Excellent at making adults believe she’s perfect, performs niceness really well, but other kids are terrified of her and there’s never anything in her eyes except calculation. Everything always gets put down to miscommunication or misunderstandings or being a scapegoat. She’s not.

previouslyknownas · 18/05/2026 09:47

AnnoyedAsAllHeck · 18/05/2026 07:37

ITA! That sums it up quite well. A variety of factors go into whether the child grows up to be a success in business or politics versus a Ted Bundy/Charles Manson.

I would agree with this
I have no doubt that if I hadn’t been adopted and had very normal & stable upbringing I would be just like my bio sister

probably worse in some ways as I think things through and anything I do is calculated and all

she is much more impulsive and doesn’t think of the consequences of anything

but those traits we both have but I think my upbringing made me more normal if that’s makes sense

Sooveritall · 18/05/2026 10:09

I have a family member who was very cruel as a child. He later committed CSA but went on to become a MI6 operative. I once asked how he could kill people and my other family member told me he was a cold eyed bastard.
Fwiw my DD is a trainee psychologist in the criminal and forensic field. It's horrible and often the pattern is childhood trauma and neglect.

LizzieW1969 · 18/05/2026 10:15

previouslyknownas · 18/05/2026 00:43

I am adopted ( adopted at 8 weeks old )
I have a biological sister and she was brought up by our biological parents I didn’t meet her until I was in my late teens early twenties.

I had a very nice , you could say privileged upbringing
My parents were very law abiding and very good people. we lived in a nice house in a nice area.
They weren’t really rich but we never went without anything and I had no trauma in my upbringing . Big extended family around holidays abroad paid for driving lessons and got me my first car .

However despite having a very normal
upbringing I will bend and break rules if I think it’s ok with my own set of morals . I have very little problem in lying if I want something .
i have a horrible horrible temper which scares me sometimes but I rarely lose my temper as I’ve learned to control it over the years . But I can hold a grudge against someone for years

I have no problems in wishing ill on people I don’t like either .
Someone I knew from my school days died recently and honestly I felt quite happy when I was told ( I know that’s not normal ) but she was a bully in school to lots of people and I just felt glad she was dead and I know her death was most likely quite painful . My immediate thought when I was told was serves her right .

But i don’t really like people that much and have no problems with cutting people off completely .
I have never smoked, done drugs and i am
an occasional drinker never been in trouble with the police .
Got straight A in school ( many years ago )
I have been happily married for over 25 years

my biological sister id the complete opposite grown up with a drunk and mentally ill mother and a father who had other kids and didn’t really want to deal with a kid that had “issues”

smoking at a early age led to drugs and drinking , and crime she’s been in and out of prison many times once for 8 years and both her kids have been in and out of the care system for pretty much all of their lives . She’s also been sectioned twice last I heard .

she would take and do anything if she thinks she entitled to it and not give a shit if she was to physically hurt someone

whereas I would think hard about the consequences and if I can get away with it 😂. 😂
I will conform to rules & laws if I need to get something but otherwise I’m quite happy doing what I want
I absolutely hate hate being told No or what to do by anyone.
Years ago an optician told me I couldn’t wear contact lens again gave me such a feeling of rage towards him I felt like hitting with the paperweight on his desk 😂

But i think my sister is just the bad side of me and that if I hadn’t been adopted i would have been just like her as I can see so much of myself in her especially looking back when I was a teenager and a bit wild .
but I think because I had a very stable and loving upbringing that nasty side of me didn’t develop as much

I don’t have anything to do with her anymore as there was a period many years ago where she was incredibly vile towards me and my family because she didn’t have what I had growing up ( her words not mine )

Both of us can be very charming and sociable if we need to be . And surprisingly people seem to like us both .
I have never had a problem making friends but I tend to get bored very quickly of people
I’m quite happy with my own company

Edited

Someone I knew from my school days died recently and honestly I felt quite happy when I was told ( I know that’s not normal ) but she was a bully in school to lots of people and I just felt glad she was dead and I know her death was most likely quite painful . My immediate thought when I was told was serves her right .

My DDs (17 and 14) are adopted as well. I remember almost identical comments from DD1 when a classmate died at the end of year 11 (last summer). She just said that she didn’t care as the girl in question had been very mean to her. She couldn’t understand why everyone was so upset.

I tried to explain that it’s possible to feel sadness because it was sad for her to die so young, and to be sad for her family. I told her that I felt saddened to hear about it from her.

I’ve always been aware of a lack of empathy. She has violent meltdowns (less often than she used to, thankfully), where she’ll swear and throw things. (She used to be violent towards me and very occasionally DD2.) But she’s also very sweet at other times and isn’t intentionally cruel, she loves our 3 cats and wants to do animal management at college next September.

She’s never been a school bully either, though her behaviour towards us and DD2 over the years has caused her younger sister to be terrified of her and she now lives with my DSis and her family. But it’s all impulsive and in the moment, not calculated.

She has a fascination with things like Chernobyl and the Second World War, especially Auschwitz, which she really wants to visit. But she’s never expressed horror at the suffering that happened there. There’s something very matter of fact in her interest.

She has recently been diagnosed with autism and a learning disability. She also has FASD (Foetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder).

tumbleairer · 18/05/2026 10:16

38woman · 17/05/2026 23:33

I agree it is an absolutely fascinating watch. That said, I actually thought there was something "off" about his mother. She made me uncomfortable

I actually thought there was something "off" about his mother. She made me uncomfortable
Agree. She has a cold, selfish, narcissistic vibe about her. The brother was likely jealous (common, especially with the age gap) and the mother perhaps did foster this. I suspect that she may have enjoyed playing the siblings off against each other. Her own upbringing was damaged. There is something cold and self serving about that mother.

hazelnutvanillalatte · 18/05/2026 10:25

Stompythedinosaur · 17/05/2026 16:57

After twenty years working in youth justice and with exploited children - yes, I'm certain I understand the case.

No, I do not believe the child perpetrators were simply "born evil". No child I have worked with in twenty years has been. Their behaviour has always been understandable (though awful) in the context of the experiences they had themselves been subjected to.

It's easier for adults to just write an offender off as "bad". But that doesn't make it true.

Do you not think a person can be born with any other psychiatric disorder? ASPD can be exacerbated by trauma but not always, just like many other conditions. It is not always a simple cause and effect. Sometimes people are 'born like that.'

KoiTetra · 18/05/2026 10:46

TheJuryIsOut · 17/05/2026 16:39

So again, do you think a switch flicks on their 18th birthday and they're suddenly a psychopath?

I think, and I may be wrong that the poster is using the very strict medical definition for psychopathy.

I am not knowledgeable on this but I assume from the previous post that to qualify medically you must be 18 years old.

That does not mean that those under 18 don't exhibit behaviours that align or that are consistent just that medically they don't get the tag.

CatsandSun · 18/05/2026 11:11

I went to secondary school with a boy who murdered a girl who I also went to school with. <a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?q=www.thefreelibrary.com/Boy%2B%2527got%2Boff%2Bwith%2Bmurder%2527.-a061116441&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiznIbZy8KUAxUddUEAHWUcL8wQFnoECCQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3W3_MYbSe_uQfgNX21RvjI" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.google.com/url?q=www.thefreelibrary.com/Boy%2B%2527got%2Boff%2Bwith%2Bmurder%2527.-a061116441&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiznIbZy8KUAxUddUEAHWUcL8wQFnoECCQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3W3_MYbSe_uQfgNX21RvjI I don’t remember there being anything odd about him, scary that you don’t know you are sitting next to these people until they do something like this.

CatsandSun · 18/05/2026 11:17

CatsandSun · 18/05/2026 11:11

I went to secondary school with a boy who murdered a girl who I also went to school with. <a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?q=www.thefreelibrary.com/Boy%2B%2527got%2Boff%2Bwith%2Bmurder%2527.-a061116441&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiznIbZy8KUAxUddUEAHWUcL8wQFnoECCQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3W3_MYbSe_uQfgNX21RvjI" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.google.com/url?q=www.thefreelibrary.com/Boy%2B%2527got%2Boff%2Bwith%2Bmurder%2527.-a061116441&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiznIbZy8KUAxUddUEAHWUcL8wQFnoECCQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3W3_MYbSe_uQfgNX21RvjI I don’t remember there being anything odd about him, scary that you don’t know you are sitting next to these people until they do something like this.

Link hasn’t worked, the girl was called Joanne Eddison she was 15 years old, her boyfriend Liam Tovell 16 was only sentenced to 2 years because he concealed her body for 2 months and police incompetence a cause of death could not be fixed… prosecutors believe he strangled her.

Bridgertonisbest · 18/05/2026 11:35

StandingDeskDisco · 18/05/2026 08:22

How does your theory about psychopaths being made not born account for the large numbers of psychopaths from good homes with stable upbringings, who go on to lead 'successful' lives as businessmen etc. ?

Whats a good home?

I think that siblings within families can have very different experiences. I think that one sibling can be a victim of abuse outside the home. I also think that many families look quite functional from the outside but aren’t from the inside and a lack of integrity in people isn’t that uncommon.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 18/05/2026 11:37

I wouldn't want to "label" him, but I was with my headteacher ex when we met an acquaintances child of 9, and was staggered to hear ex say that the kid frightened him

This was a guy who taught in a very dubious area and dealt with all sorts, but I'd never heard him say such a thing before

That child is now 29 and doing a sentence for murder ...

StandingDeskDisco · 18/05/2026 11:45

autumn1638 · 17/05/2026 19:03

Psychopathy is only diagnosed after age 18 as it is a personality disorder and personality has not developed until adulthood. There would be an argument for delaying this diagnosis until 25 for this reason. That doesn’t mean that signs are not there it’s just termed differently as emergent personality disorder. Often goes alongside attentional difficulties, attachment difficulties, callous and unemotional traits. These young people are often vulnerable and come from chaotic backgrounds. It would be wrong to saddle them with quite a damning diagnosis so early in life when they have so much growing to do, but that doesn’t mean that their vulnerabilities are not acknowledged by mental health professionals.

There is something rather odd about describing a psychopath's traits as "vulnerabilities".

MistressoftheDarkSide · 18/05/2026 12:02

StandingDeskDisco · 18/05/2026 11:45

There is something rather odd about describing a psychopath's traits as "vulnerabilities".

I can sort of see where this is coming from. One can be vulnerable to the consequences of one's own actions, and those affected by them are also vulnerable.

This is where I can't decide if psychopathy is inherent or formed environmentally, or it may be a combination of the two generating a "perfect storm" if you will.

I have encountered a few people whose actions have had devastating consequences for people around them, yet cannot be persuaded that they were not proportionally justified to the slight they feel was done to them, and the fall out on both sides could not be described as either satisfying or constructive.

The fact that they apparently don't care about the negative consequences to themselves could be seen as a vulnerability I think. How it should be addressed or managed is a whole other can of worms, especially if their motivation is revenge for perceived victimisation on their part.

StandingDeskDisco · 18/05/2026 12:03

BertieBotts · 17/05/2026 20:17

I don't work in the field but I have read enough to understand - yes and no. At least if I understood your question correctly, I think you're in the right ball park but not necessarily the right direction.

Conduct Disorder is essentially the medical/modern name for what used to be referred to as delinquency - a consistent pattern of antisocial behaviour, combined with a lack of empathy or remorse about said behaviour. As others have said, children/teens with Conduct Disorder don't respond to punishment but may respond to reward, and this can be used to modify behaviour.

Conduct disorder is not usually a diagnosis given until adolescence. Before this, similar behaviour patterns are identified as Oppositional Defiance Disorder (ODD). This is defined as a persistent and almost automatic rejection of any kind of authority. Essentially the medical name for a "You're not the boss of me!" kind of attitude. Note with ODD, there is nothing mentioned about empathy.

ODD is extremely common, especially among neurodivergent children, and not all children with ODD go on to develop CD.

Likewise CD can be a phase that some adolescents go through and grow out of. Some adolescents with CD will go on to be identified as being psychopaths as adults, but not all. So it is not exactly true to say that CD = Psychopathy. CD if it continues into adulthood does merge into Antisocial Personality Disorder or ASPD, but not all individuals with ASPD are psychopaths (Wikipedia says around a third are).

ODD is known to be able to be caused when parental discipline is too harsh/reactive or a combination of too inconsistent/lax but then also too reactive (think a parent who ignores or gives into their child until they annoy them, and then wallops the child, rather than intervening calmly earlier, or a parent who flies into rages unpredictably). But it can also happen without this. It can be indicative of a stress response, for example when a ND child's needs are not recognised or met, or as an indicator of possible abuse or trauma. It has a lot of overlap with the autistic PDA profile and this can be mistaken for ODD. There are also a lot of aspects of ADHD around emotional regulation and impulse control which overlap with ODD, so children can meet criteria for ODD if they have difficulty controlling their temper.

There is less research into the causes of CD but there is the fairly classic path of a child who hasn't had a great start in life/school for whatever reason that might be - ACEs or other difficult life experiences, ND, lack of opportunity to develop appropriate behaviour etc and because of a punitive/critical response to this behaviour by adults the child/teenager becomes jaded and acclimatised to punishment so that it ceases to have any effect. And then this in itself might lead to either an entrenched belief that the world is out to get me and the only way to survive is to hit back, or if the young person isn't engaging in education then they are highly likely to fall back on crime, exploitation, addiction, homelessness etc.

But yes if somebody was inherently a sadistic psychopath specifically, then it would likely show up as the path ODD > CD > ASPD > psychopathy, if this is clinically noted.

But, as said, not all psychopaths are sadistic or gain pleasure from other people's pain. Some of them just lack empathy and weight their own gain as much higher than anything relating to others. The definition of psychopathy is a combination of grandiose narcissism + lack of empathy/remorse + lack of taking personal responsibility or long term planning. A lot of psychopaths are said to be very charming and if this is the case from childhood then it might be nothing is raised.

The definition of psychopathy is a combination of grandiose narcissism + lack of empathy/remorse + lack of taking personal responsibility or long term planning.

I am surprised at the 'lack of long term planning' criteria.
I would have thought that psychopaths with enough intelligence could make long term plans e.g. over a year, to achieve their personal goals.

CoffeeCantata · 18/05/2026 12:25

Yes, I think I have.

Pps saying there's no such thing?? Well, it might not be acceptable to label them as such until they are adults, but that doesn't mean they aren't psychopaths until they're 18.

I taught a 6 year old whose behaviour chilled me. He was from an affluent, educated middle class family but he took pleasure in hurting people and animals. His behaviour in class was difficult (very boastful and arrogant) but I don't mind bad behaviour - and I've seen a lot, but this wasn't just normal naughtiness. He would arm himself with a weapon before playtime (I'd have to watch him really carefully - he was very sly. After most of the obvious things had been confiscated, he brought in some compasses (not allowed in school at that age) and was off outside with a grin on his face to use them against another child. I took them away and put them in my desk drawer - but he was bold enough to steal them from there and try it on again at lunchtime.

On a school visit to a farm, he had to be watched by 2 members of staff to stop him poking sticks into the eyes of the animals.

And knocking over his baby sister's stroller at picking up time, sitting on her chest and putting both hands hard over her mouth. His mum was chatting and didn't immediately notice. I alerted her and she just laughed.

He moved to another school (never got invited to parties after the first few - I had a troop of parents coming in to complain about his behaviour in and out of school...). Very worrying and disturbing. I don't know what happened to him in later years, but he was the only young child I felt unnerved by.

CoffeeCantata · 18/05/2026 12:26

The definition of psychopathy is a combination of grandiose narcissism + lack of empathy/remorse

These were definitely features of the child I describe above.

StandingDeskDisco · 18/05/2026 12:34

BrokenWingsCantFly · 18/05/2026 01:39

It wasn't out of the blue. They didn't act on impluse when cornered. They lured the sweet little boy to his dealth.

There is no explanation for it. It isn't understandable in any circumstances.

A symptom of shit childhood isn't becoming a murderer. There are many who go off the rails and in self destruction mode as a result of ot coping with the memories. But very few could ever possibly bring themselves to do this

There is no explanation for it. It isn't understandable in any circumstances.

I think you are comforting yourself by saying this, but it may not be true.

Neuroscience and psychology are attempting to find explanations and understand causes.

Periperi2025 · 18/05/2026 12:42

There is a kid in my DD school who I have concerns about whether or not he is 'predisposed to psychopathy' I don't know but it bothers me that he is around my DD as hormones start to kick in.

He was 'removed' before expulsion from 3 primary schools by Y2 including taking a knife in to one. He has had DD best friend around the neck hard enough to leave bruises. He has made what might be consider sexually inapproriate comments (although questionable due to age at time) to younger children. He likes to influence other children into joining him in his bullying behaviour. He clearly has Fetal alcohol/ drug syndrome (classic facial features) and substandard parenting.

Who knows how he'll pan out, but I'm desperatly hoping he goes to a different high school to DD.

CoffeeCantata · 18/05/2026 12:49

BrokenWingsCantFly · Today 01:39
It wasn't out of the blue. They didn't act on impluse when cornered. They lured the sweet little boy to his dealth.
There is no explanation for it. It isn't understandable in any circumstances.
A symptom of shit childhood isn't becoming a murderer. There are many who go off the rails and in self destruction mode as a result of ot coping with the memories. But very few could ever possibly bring themselves to do this

Lots to think about in the Bulger case. One chilling aspect was that a woman met them en route to the murder scene (they'd already decided on that) and offered to take the toddler from them and take him to the police station. By this time Jamie had become tired, frightened and was crying and not co-operating with the 2 boys. But the boys insisted they'd take him to the police - refusing the chance to do the right thing and give up their plan.

That's chilling - and I've read that the woman herself is racked with guilt for not insisting - but she was told that they were on their way to the police station themselves.

hazelnutvanillalatte · 18/05/2026 12:52

My mother married a narcissistic sociopath. From a child he hurt animals, assaulted a succession of au pairs, and had serious conduct problems at school. Enjoyed hurting others, lied and never felt or expressed remorse. Wealthy parents were able to cover for it and brush it all under the rug.

StandingDeskDisco · 18/05/2026 12:52

Such a lot of confusion over terms on this thread.

The terms 'innocent' or 'evil' are irrelevant - they are part of religious or theological or philosophical discussion, not part of psychology or psychiatry.

Psychopathy is not synonymous with sadism. I don't know how much they overlap, but not every sadist is a psychopath and vice versa.

Not every psychopath is violent, or destined for a life of violent crime. Many (most?) psychopaths learn how to get what they want without violence, as they don't want to be caught or sentenced.

Maddy70 · 18/05/2026 13:03

I have taught a few ... There were clear signs and went on to do hideous things

Mich1986 · 18/05/2026 13:10

Place I used to work, we had a 10 year old boy with challenging behaviour, you could see mum was scared of him as she flinched every time he came close to her, I needed to leave the room and he stood and blocked the door and stared at me when I told him to move, I had to push past him in the end, when he eventually left something happened in the waiting room and he was kicking people, security had to carry him out the building. I do wonder what happened to him and if he is still like that or got some help for possible mental health problems.

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