To wonder what else can be done to break the cycle of generations living off benefits?

[Allonthesametrain]

Sounds harsh because It is. As a former teacher, then eduation social worker, now the past few years more heavily involved with school attendance.

My desire has always been to help children from unprivileged backgrounds to know their worth and achieve the best they can and this has been my career from age 23 to 57.

The number of times I've cried, torn my hair out, is immeasurable. I and colleagues have gone above and beyond to support the families, genuinely care about them, but unfortunately the outcome has been, as I've said in title, it's a continiation of the cycle of being brought up within a small community and low expectations.

So many gorgeous kids (supported throughout their young lives until they leave school) who tell you their dreams of what they want to to achieve in life, we do everything we can to enable it and some have indeed broken out of the circle but unfortunately the reality has been...

Parents who live lifestyles of no bedtime routine, tell their kids not to come back before ...pm, sleep in and don't get them out of bed ready and fed for school and as for weekends, pub and take back a new bloke

Parents who have issues themselves and project them onto DC. The kids soon realise they can stay off school for feigning illness and would actually be a comfort to Mum

The parents who just cba and say shall we just still in bed?

Of course there are so many other mitigating factors but these are the 3 main experiences we've dealt with. Unfortunately it really does come down to poor parenting and no matter what interventions we do to encourage attendance, only a minority are genuine.

So the cycle...DC think education isn't important, parents are hopeless role models and can often be aggressive to teachers, a deflection of blame.

Then oh DD gets pregnant at age 15, DS has been reprimanded by the police for scooting around in a balaclava. Then pure hostility when we try to continue to talk to them and what could be done to help.

Basically it's just such a shame, these sweet young kids who say they want to be ... become so influenced by their homelife, a need to fit in with their family and peers from the same estate, that they ignore the support we give them, don't turn up to appointments etc.

For the genuine cases, DC with SEN, the effort to try and ensure they are in best place is utmost and it's heartbreaking there aren't enough of them. Yes, we do know genuine cases and not just so many parents striving for a diagnosis because they feed DC a terrible diet and let them stay up late so are tired and irritable at school.

Expecting some backlash, whatever anyone says I can reason with.

I'll second your comments.

I've exactly the same background; my class in a deprived area are, on the whole, keener to learn and retain more than the much more affluent classes I've taught.

But they lack experiences. No one plays an instrument or has dance or swimming lessons. They've never been to a live sporting event or to the theatre except for a pantomime. Some of them have barely been to Newcastle! I suggested going to the library - it's in walking distance - and a parent told me it was my job to provide a reading book.

It's not even poverty in a lot of cases (there's money for cigs, tanning salons and knock off clothing), it's poverty of aspiration.

Except people on benefits with low to no aspirations aren't criminals to be put in a closed city or another planet..

This. Thank you @BurnoutBee for being honest.

Right - let's do what parts of the the US used to do until the 1970s - ie sterilisation of (largely) women who were feeble minded, promiscuous or financially dependent on the state. Why stop as contraception?

< sarcastic response, just in case this were thought to be a serious suggestion >

To be fair the panto is expensive and more than good enough at that age. My DC have never been to a live sporting event, none of us like sport.

I get your gist but I think some of those things are a matter of taste. There’s no real excuse with the library or museums and galleries which are largely free other than feeling like they’re not places for people like you which I do think is common, it’s a confidence thing. I get it because I have a regional accent and I do feel I can stick out in those arenas (art galleries mostly) as a result. Everyone seems to have an RP accent, even when the gallery is in Leeds or Wakefield.

Poverty of ambition is exactly what it is.

Couple that with social mobility being very hard and you've got a perfect storm.

There are real pockets of this country with a total lack of aspiration, and it's hard to understand if you are on the outside.

My experience from an ex-mining community, with historically high unemployment going back generations was:

• a real attitude of "it was good enough for my parent, and my grandparents, so it's good enough for my child".
• a feeling of "what is the point". E.g. when I got all As in exams, my friend's mum said "So? You will end up like everyone else regardless".
• the phrase at school, repeated often to teachers trying to raise aspirations "what do you expect, I'm from town-name"

Without exception, the people who left were the people with parents who told them they were going to do better than they had in life. Everyone else stayed and raised another generation of the same.

It starts at birth, with the education of parents, IMO.

And thanks to Labour killing the job market for young people its only going to get worse.

As ive heard quite a few times recently from those who recruit for retailers/McJob and the like where kids used to typically start out - why recruit a young kid when now only for a couple of quid more they can get someone who's going to be more experienced and reliable and less of a risk.

And the new unfair dismissal legislation is the final nail, employers will be less likely to take a bit of a gamble on someone to give them a chance. Recruitment processes will become more onerous and difficult for even the most basic of pot washing jobs.

Many more young people are now destined for a life on benefits thanks to this absolute shit show of a government 😔

I have worked with these families for a long time.
Sadly what you’ve written OP is spot on.

Yes of course….everyone has thousands lying around to pay legal fees, moving costs, stamp duty…..moving is an absolute doddle if you’re a home owner. And even if renting, getting money together for a deposit, and moving costs do not come cheap.

The problem is the thing they are meant to aspire to is a minimum wage/low skill job.
My dad grew up in poverty in the 1940s, the aspiration was to go to uni and get a professional job which he did and others around him. They are now taught to aim very low.

When I was at school I learned to play two instruments for free and had free swimming lessons. Kids in my area get free swims at the local pools during school holidays and the local leisure centres do a five pound a month gym membership for under 16s.

Swimming lessons were cut by the local council but believe they are being re instated this year

Actually, the UK already has these sanctions - courts can disqualify the non-paying parent from driving for up to 2 years, cancel their passport, or sentence them to up to 6 weeks in prison

If you do a job that a lot of people in the workforce is capable of doing then you are going to be paid minimum wage. If the job requires higher level skills and training then people will pay you more.

I would not have any sense of self pride if I didn’t work or worked in a low paid job

Can you imagine how it feels to read that if you are disabled, a carer or working at minimum wage for 40 hours a week? Anyone who works, regardless of pay, has every reason to feel pride in themselves. How dare you suggest otherwise. Low paid workers are essential to the smooth running of myriads of businesses, the public sector and third sector. Caring for people, cleaning, serving food, packing in factories, standing on a production line, stacking shelves…all essential.

And what’s making you assume I don’t have a job myself?

But I’m not engaging with you any more as you clearly just want to keep peddling your own false narrative. Crack on with making a fool of yourself…

I'm not too sure our welfare state will survive much longer anyway. Which I guess will 'sort' the problem of people being on welfare although not what you meant.

It is hard to get your head around the fact that only 80 years ago there was no welfare state or NHS. There were doctors you paid for (or went without) and there was the workhouse which I believe you avoided at all costs unless really desperate.

Every month the UK borrows money to pay the interest on it's debt. Not to repay the debt, just the interest on the debt. So we have to borrow to pay interest and so our debt gets bigger and the cycle goes on (until it does not). Already the UK pays more to borrow than Greece, Spain and Morocco and I believe it has risen again this last week with the political chaos. The markets are showing a dwindling faith in the UK as a good place to invest/lend to.

So we can't currently repay our debt. We can't even pay the interest on the debt (without borrowing).

How long really can this go on for. For a long time the UK enjoyed very low interest rates to borrow and this is no longer the case. Either a PM fixes this or at least starts to reverse it (and it's going to mean huge cuts, perhaps even a complete removal of the system). However what I think will happen is we will end up with an IMF bailout and then they will make the rules.

Nobody had families on benefits 80 years ago because no such thing existed. So I guess we will end up back there or perhaps a little bit better but not much. Problem solved. Kids/people will be sick and die and that will just be life again in the UK as it was before.

@Cheesipuff

I am not contributing towards my pension at the minute no. I’m focussing on being able to buy my kids some proper, nutritional food though for the time being. Hey there’s always pension credit 😉.

Thank you, I have a low paid job. I work in the charity sector and I think that what I do matters and is really worthwhile. There are loads of well paid jobs that frankly, society doesn't need, and tons of low paid jobs that make the world a better place.

It will be these higher paid jobs that go first when ai takes over and then they will realise how hard it is to work a mw job and or be on benefits.

Ah, 'the good old days'.
Times have moved on a lot since then.

i think one of the biggest problems is the cost of living vs the profits any business can make to then pay the workers there true value, eg case in point person at local co op, working as team leader, then offered training for management yet the wage was only marginal yet more responsibility etc when in theory and if true wages were paid etc

But how do you know what your taste is if you're not exposed to it? Children who have opportunities can choose. If you've never had that opportunity, you'll never know. Hence poverty of aspiration.

I can't comment on aspirations - my mum grew up on benefits, got married at 17 and had huge aspirations for us - but the idea that schools do all they can for SEN kids is nonsense. Unless they're causing major behavioural issues at school no one is in the least bit interested in doing anything for SEN kids. It took me five years, yes five years just to get DS sat at the front of his classes as he can't filter out distractions (ASD). Something free, that you think would be so simple to do, but no one was interested.

@Allrightonthenight1

Poverty of aspiration is definitely a thing. Particularly young, white, working class boys, which my sons are.

Reminds me of last week. I was on the football pitch sidelines with a couple of the other mums, and we were talking about our sons plans after year 11 (they’re currently doing GCSEs). Construction came up a lot. No judgement from me, however when they asked me about my son, I said most probably A-Levels. I cringed. Felt the internal embarrassment. It’s hard to articulate but it was like I suddenly just had two heads.