Andy Burnham - how can this be allowed?

[Boopybop]

I know that there is a long way to go over the coming weeks, with by-elections and leadership challenges. But fundamentally - how can it be right that a man who was not even a candidate in the General Election, was therefore not voted for in the General Election - become Prime Minister? Effectively, the people of Makerfield are selecting the country’s new Prime Minister (as it is pretty obvious that AB would win a leadership contest).

This feels wholly undemocratic in every way.

AIBU - Andy Burnham has every right to become PM

AINBU - it is not right that a by-election in Makerfield can determine who the next Prime Minister will be

Ok, posts like this make me understand a little bit more why people in my local FB group are all crowing because "now Nigel can sort out the boats!"
They genuinely must think that he's now in charge of us as they voted for him 😕😁

I agree 😅 Starmer doesnt seem to have grasped exactly how much him and his cronies have pissed the electorate off. Even after the sound thrashing they received in the locals

I’m not sure why anyone thinks AB will do a better job tbh. The Labour Party is fractured and the infighting won’t stop. It really feels like they are copying all the mistakes of the Tory party.

Oh, I'm sure that if Reform get in, they will have exactly the same issues - especially considering how many ex-Tory MPs have jumped ship to them. They'll have the knives out for Farage as soon as they get their seat. The problem isn't party-specific, it's an affliction of the entire political class, from the most insignificant student union or branch of the SWP, right up to the parties of government. The political media's obsession with drama rather than the dull mechanics of government doesn't help.

A party named the Literal Democrats won 10,000 votes in the 1994 European elections, as the Liberal Democrat candidate Adrian Sanders lost the Devon and East Plymouth constituency to the Conservatives by just 700 votes.
Mr Sanders, now the Lib Dem MP for Torbay, said his party would challenge the result in the High Court. It is believed many voters had opted for Literal Democrat candidate Richard Huggett in error.
Although the court case failed, Mr Huggett's tactics led to the Registration of Political Parties Act 1998, which outlawed the use of names in elections designed to cause confusion with more established parties.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-27056001

As others have repeatedly stated, in the UK we vote for a party, and not the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister is the leader of the party that gets a working majority, either outright or as part of a coalition. That's why we've had a revolving door of Tory PMs, but without an election for each one.

That said... I don't like it. Unless the PM has done something so incompetent, morally egregious, or outright illegal, they should be in for the duration, without the risk of being ousted by party members who throw a meltdown at the slightest hurdle, seeking their moment of glory. We talk so much about building resilience in our children, about learning from failures, yet we've got people leading the country either quitting because they can't handle it, or because those around them think that stabbing them in the back is a good knee jerk reaction.

Astonishing isn't it, on first glance. Then one remembers, it's Labour.

A large part of the fault lies with the electorate. Someone said here that we live at a time of Amazon Prime style politics, and that is exactly it. Everyone expects a smorgasboard of their own personal preferences catered to instantly by any political leader and if people don't get exactly what they want, when they want it, they call for the resignation of said leader and basically cancel the party, as has happened with Labour. All the good and positive changes Labour has already managed to achieve in a very difficult national and global climate go unnoticed.

The media which is largely controlled by right wing billionaires whips up hysteria about the small boats and brown people and people respond to the dog whistle politics of Farage and co who play to people's worst instincts and promise the world (which they will not be able to deliver).

So look in the mirror, guys, when you point the finger at Labour. You are to blame for this as well.

My preference would have been for Keir Starmer to say in power and get on with the job, but as that ship appears to have sailed and he is on the plank, my money is on Andy Burnham to have the best chance (even if limited) to beat Reform at the next GE. Yes, he may have personal ambitions but at this point I think all that is irrelevant, he just needs to beat Reform, and I imagine that is what he means to do, irrespective of his ego and ambitions.

It's funny how people call for this impeccable integrity and disinterestedness from Labour politicians when to me most people have zero maturity or integrity in their voting habits and political opinions.

I’m no fan of Boris Johnson but he got in at a General Election - nobody resigned and triggered a by-election on his behalf.

You know, just because someone doesn't perform well when being interrogated, or doesn't perform well when speaking in public, doesn't mean they are a bad or ineffective leader.

Getting your message across and inspiring confidence are fairly essential qualities in a leader. The PM has to face the Commons at PMQs each week. He or she does need to be able to perform on that occasion.

Surely the point is that no one elects the PM? The majority party chooses their leader. There is no ballot of the electorate for that (thank God, considering the state the US is in).

I think the objectors are just worried that Labour might win the next GE with Burnham in charge. And well they might. He's been a fabulous Metro Mayor.

Given you don’t vote for a PM I don’t particularly have a problem with that. But I do think he is being incredibly disrespectful to the people who elected him as mayor and for that reason really I don’t want him to become prime minister.

I hate the thought of reform beating labour but I think it would serve him right to not get elected

We don't have a party-list system in the UK, except in the Senedd. We vote for individual named candidates, not for a party.

In many other countries, you vote for a party. For UK national elections, we vote for individuals (who may be, but are not required to be, members of a party).

It's really not difficult to understand.

The person who said short term pain for long term gain - I don’t think a new PM will last either

it’s the short sightedness of the football club - haven’t won your first 3 games - sack the manager and get a new one

the problem is, you end up with increasingly worse candidates because who wants to be involved in that kind of shit show

Its allowed because Josh Simons has every right to stand down from his role as MP. Clearly he can't be forced to continue against his wishes, can he?
When an MP stands down the constituents get the chance to vote again for a replacement.
Andy Burnham will stand together with anyone else who chooses to, and the constituents vote for the person they choose.
Obviously the hope is they will pick Burnham, (meaning he can go on to challenge the PM for leadership) but that's up to the constituents.
So I really don't see what 'shouldn't be allowed' about the thing really. It's not as though Burnham has been swapped in for Simons without the constituents having a choice, is it?

A PP mentioned that reform had done very well in the local election in Makerfield. I don't think AB is going to win the seat. It will be a disaster for Labour.

Reform voters are undoubtedly voting for Farage as the local candidates have no track record or experience. Especially in these recent council elections.
I'm surprised people are surprised about this.

However, despite voting for him, he's not PM (yet) and it will trickle down to everyone eventually that the Reform councils can't stop the boats.

It will also become clear in a few years, if Nigel ever is PM, that he has no intention of stopping the boats either.

While here inthe UK we vote for MPs and the biggest group of them , either alone or in coalition, form the government and whoever leads that group is PM, it’s really not true to say we don’t vote for the leaders. How many people voted Tory because they genuinely believed in Boris, or Maggie, how many voted for Blair rather than Labour , it’s almost stupid to say we don’t vote for the leader because for many, that person has a massive influence on the decision. I would never have voted Labour when
Corbin was in charge as an example but would have with Starmer. Equally I wouldn’t vote Labour if Burnham, Rayner or Streeting was in charge. Id totally agree that, effectively, a small number of people in one constituency will decide who the PM is and thus the direction the country will go and I’m not totally convinced that is how democracy should work

Im actually disgusted by it all. It just seems so arrogant and manipulative. Plus, I remember Andy Burnham being in government before. He always struck me as having a vastly overinflated idea of his own abilities and charisma. I dont understand how he's suddenly being seen as some sort of messiah.

@Boopybop
In reality though, in a GE - people are voting for who will be the next Prime Minister.

This is technically and in practice not true. The most obvious evidence being constituencies with minor party MPs, e.g. Greens or independent MPs, who are not affiliated with any party at all.

Starmer would do us all a favour if his leaving present was a bill that if a PM is changed outside a general election there should be a general election within a year. That would really focus the minds of MPs whether they want to risk their own seat. A year should be just enough time to show some improvement and win it.

Basically REform need to win as they are the only viable alternative

I hope it backfires on them massively. They are treating the electorate like idiots. All smoke and mirrors. It’s an absolute disgrace!

It looks like this mess is going to take 6 months to sort out.
By the time Labour gets a new prime minister in place the electorate will be demanding a general election. The new leader will only have 2 years max to try and sort things out.
It looks like a disaster to me. I would also resent being a pawn in Andy Burnhams game.

I actually live in the constituency he is running to get a seat in. I really like and respect Andy Burnham, however a lot of people I speak to don’t. It’s quite reform heavy at the moment and I don’t think he will win the seat, so there will be no such issue, unfortunately.