Andy Burnham - how can this be allowed?

[Boopybop]

I know that there is a long way to go over the coming weeks, with by-elections and leadership challenges. But fundamentally - how can it be right that a man who was not even a candidate in the General Election, was therefore not voted for in the General Election - become Prime Minister? Effectively, the people of Makerfield are selecting the country’s new Prime Minister (as it is pretty obvious that AB would win a leadership contest).

This feels wholly undemocratic in every way.

AIBU - Andy Burnham has every right to become PM

AINBU - it is not right that a by-election in Makerfield can determine who the next Prime Minister will be

I see your thought processes on this but it's more nuanced than that, as I don't think the majority of Reform voters want to screw over the old or vulnerable - many certainly did not like the suggestion of taking the winter fuel allowance away from pensioners for example.

Farage is a charmer and has been using the Trump playbook to con people into thinking he has the solutions and that they are easy - and they can solve all the problems if we have a Reform government.

So bored by all of this. I’m a high earner, centre, remain voting individual. Not interested in the politics of narcissism. I will be voting conservative at the next election for sure if Burnham is elected and starts to raise taxes even more.

Of the Sclttish can have a non British citizen on a student visa ... what's the problem. Best man/woman for the job. We definiteky dont want the greens or reform j

???

Labour didn't win the popular vote so more than half the population didn't vote for the prime minister by this logic

I know, it's all so dull, isn't it?🍰

“I see your thought processes on this but it's more nuanced than that, as I don't think the majority of Reform voters want to screw over the old or vulnerable - many certainly did not like the suggestion of taking the winter fuel allowance away from pensioners for example.”

@thedramaQueen - I suspect it is more that a typical Reform voters believes a pensioner who has worked hard all their life deserves to be warm when old and it is all [insert Green Mlliband agenda] and the wokerati’s fault that energy prices are so high and mismanaged - hence because it is “their” fault they cannot cancel the winter fuel allowance.
But Nigel is going to be drilling the North Sea oil and chumming with Trump and will get quasi free gas bonanza - so no need for WFA subsidies for anyone when Nigel enters Centre Stage.
And the hash tag “be kind” movement is dead and get back to good old hard work and common sense.
I actually think most of them believe this.

Just like the Far Left believe the evil capitalists and bankers are all to blame and there is some magic wand that can be waved by the Soft/Hard Left to “tax the rich” and back to the good old welfare state for all and eternal socialist happiness.

They're talking about this politician who isn’t a citizen but here on a student visa. They were elected as a MSP www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g82j03w94o

I really do think people have more in common. Simple categories like soft/ hard left, centrist, right wing etc is exactly what I’m talking about when I say Farage and Reform, along with many in the media are using Trump‘s playbook.

The be kind movement is only dead when it’s your opponent, people often complain when they feel insulted just look on this thread…

thank you

Try living in Scotland, we don’t even get to choose what party get into power.

@incidentally - to the modern sentiment that image is far more Handmaid’s Tale - a wife- than Marie Antoinette’s let them eat cake.
Why else would she still be that thin!
And personally, I would much rather be a Martha with something to do in the kitchen than a Wife.

But I don’t think any became Prime Minister after not even being an MP at the preceding General Election.

Sir Alec Douglas-Home was sitting in the House of Lords as the Earl of Home when he became PM. He renounced his title & stood in a Scottish constituency which happened to be vacant. For a period of several weeks he was PM while neither a member of the House of Lords nor an MP.

Reform voters have been presented with acceptable and deserving groups to screw over. Immigrants and 'benefit scroungers'. We're fed a steady diet of the harms these groups are supposed to be doing to our society, with much coverage given to immigrant crime and 'fighting age' men, and endless anecdotes about people who don't work who scam the system and live the life of Riley.
These folk devils allow otherwise good and decent people to support vulnerable groups being screwed over, because they are presented as an enemy.

Well the Centre/Centre Right seems to be clamouring for an end to the triple lock instead - which makes much more sense to me. The poorer pensioners will be topped up by pension credit anyway.
We cannot be baking inflation into the benefits system in some sort of doom loop feeding itself.

Because them's the rules?

This will be his third try at leader, it is just a clown show, they tried to cancel the recent elections didn"t they, and Labour types were very vocal in trying to overturn the Brexit vote, they only like democracy when they win so jumping through any hoop rather than just accept that they are out of touch and over as a party is what they will do!

The real story for the UK is Iran and higher inflation and interest rates in general and the real prospect now of a Reform led government, the media don"t want to talk about these things though (they liked talking about Iran when they thought it would be over soon and they could get back to encouraging people into debt) so they will double down on the Labour clown show, which honestly is just embarrassing to watch, so to answer your question, don"t worry about what they are doing they will be gone soon, hopefully for good.

You think economic migrants and people who smoke weed all day are vulnerable groups? No wonder people are voting Reform in droves!

Oh dear, do you really believe there is no benefit fraud and no scroungers?

Tell that to the DWP who say it costs us £8.5-£9.7bn per year. There are over 5 million unemployed - are you suggesting that all of those are working their arses off to get a job? And if they are, why are we bringing in lite immigrants who also need benefits and jobs?

Your ‘left wing’ talking points are not founded in logic or reality.

Tell that to the DWP who say it costs us £8.5-£9.7bn per year. There are over 5 million unemployed - are you suggesting that all of those are working their arses off to get a job?

Benefit fraud is deplorable but amounts to only 2.2 % of benefits paid. Compare it to the nearly £50 billion of uncollected taxes that is 5.3% of total theoretical tax liabilities.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-2024-to-2025-estimates/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-ending-fye-2025#total-estimates-of-fraud-and-error-across-all-benefit-expenditure

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/measuring-tax-gaps/1-tax-gaps-summary

There are 1.694 million unemployed not the 5 million as you claim.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/employmentintheuk/april2026#unemployment

Oh dear. Do you believe that you can throw out the figure of £9b, couple it with a little right wing ranting in which 'arses' predictably feature, and imagine you've scored a point of logic?
Maybe start by educating yourself on the difference between fraud and overpayment. Because your figure is the second, not the first.
Then ask, rather than 'tell' the DWP how much of thatvoverpayment is due to official error, genuine error on the part of claimants, and working people under reporting earnings.
You might then need to have a deeper dive into your figures for unemployment.
You are currently quoting the media figure for working age people in receipt of benefits. This figure includes sick and disabled people and carers, as well as those who are unemployed but able to take up work.
The actual figure for the number unemployed who are able to work is 1.7 million. Which while high, is someway off your figure. And there is no evidence of how many, if any, of these people are committing benefit fraud (failing to find a job isnt fraud) unless you're aware of some I've missed?

@Araminta1003 am still confused by the confected scenario you posed yesterday about rich Reform members parachuting themselves into constituencies that Reform hold (and i believe you were suggesting that this would happen at scale) What is driving all these sitting MPs to stand down? Why didn't Reform select the rich members as candidates in the first place?

Why didn't Reform select the rich members as candidates in the first place?

Most of the Reform UK Party Ltd MPs are rich in any case. Tice funded the party before the shady overseas cryto billionaire. Farage got a £5 million bung to stand for election. Rupert Lowe is rich & was elected under the Reform UK Party Ltd banner. I'm not sure of the wealth of the Tory Turncoats but I don't think they are short of a bob or two.

@alliumursinum - because Reform are still working on their “legitimacy” as a party. However, if they establish it firmly and democracy can be bought, then I think it could set a dangerous precedent.

Look at Labour as well - they have democracy the wrong way round. They seem to think they can choose their voters by parachuting someone in, not the other way around!

But this argument misses out the chosen candidate having to be voted in by the electorate first. Just as would be the case if they were chosen to stand at a GE not a by-election. Which has backfired in the past, because no political party can enforce the vote. Admittedly usually in cases where the candidate has weaker links to the constituency than Burnham- unusual form of parachuting when you've lived there years- but it's not like there's no possibility of that here.

It's also not buying, unless you're suggesting either of the parties concerned are going to start paying for votes.