Andy Burnham - how can this be allowed?

[Boopybop]

I know that there is a long way to go over the coming weeks, with by-elections and leadership challenges. But fundamentally - how can it be right that a man who was not even a candidate in the General Election, was therefore not voted for in the General Election - become Prime Minister? Effectively, the people of Makerfield are selecting the country’s new Prime Minister (as it is pretty obvious that AB would win a leadership contest).

This feels wholly undemocratic in every way.

AIBU - Andy Burnham has every right to become PM

AINBU - it is not right that a by-election in Makerfield can determine who the next Prime Minister will be

“Lisa Smart, spokesperson for the Lib Dem Cabinet Office, said: “The arrogance of these men is staggering. To believe that representing a community is a gift to be handed to your mate shows utterly, out-of-touch contempt.
“Labour’s internal psychodrama has triggered this by-election so they should pay for the consequences — all £5 million pounds’ worth of the mayoral election.””

@OVienna - do you know, do the rules actually allow them to pay for it?

Sorry but the precedent really is rich people swooping in paying for their own by-elections in the future?

Absolutely no way acceptable. This needs proper investigation under the rules.

The Labour MP has publicly admitted why he gave up his seat. There is no denying that.

Might be cheaper to go back to rotten boroughs

Andy Burnham has the highest approval rating of any UK politician and would like to be the Labour PM.
Labour currently have a leader who is very unpopular.
It doesn't take a genius, or require a conspiracy theory to see the first as an obvious solution to the second, does it?

The thing I think is not on is when there is no by-election because the sitting MP has decided to join a different party. That is way worse. People who voted one way for one political party find they are lumbered with a person favouring policies from another.

Having a by-election to fill a spot left by a sitting MP is more democratic than the above situation.
Am not a Labour supporter but Burnham has to win the by-election. He is not simply placed in the role.

They are all terrified of him - which is a very good sign indeed!

He's got a strong history in the area - Makerfield is in Wigan as was Leigh, his previous constituency which he won with pretty significant majorities - even in 2015 when Labour were losing seats at the general election, he actually increased his majority and vote share in Leigh.

Makerfield is also in Greater Manchester of course, where Burnham has consistently won with over 60% of the vote - higher than any London mayoral vote and he got 66% of votes from Wigan.

He's a proven entity, who has clearly done a good job in Wigan and Greater Manchester. He's shown that he can work across division with his Hillsborough campaigning, despite being an Everton fan.

He's knows the area well and the people seem to trust him. It's not like he's been parachuted into a seat where he has no or very limited links to the area like say Clacton, Henley or Uxbridge and South Ruislip!

He was second favourite to become the next PM before there was even a seat for him to stand in - they are right to be worried.

I for one have said for a long time that I think he is the best person for the job (and I am not a Labour member and don't usually vote for them), and I genuinely hope he wins both the Makerfield seat and the Labour Leadership because I think he is this countries best chance of avoiding a reform government and moving us in the right direction!

I think the major issue Andy will face, is that even someone like me (previous Labour voter, center left, dislikes Reform) would think it absolutely hilarious if Reform won that particular by election.

Never underestimate the British dislike of unfairness, or their wry sense of humour.

I'm not a Starmer fan, but am sick of the instability the musical chairs of PM's causes. And the implication that not a single member of parliamentary labour is capable of being the PM is shocking.

the implication that not a single member of parliamentary labour is capable of being the PM is shocking.

yes this!! I just wish they would come together as a party and have a united front rather than this nonsense of the left of the party trashing all the things their own government is trying to do at the last minute. They look so incompetent and disjointed

The thing I think is not on is when there is no by-election because the sitting MP has decided to join a different party. That is way worse. People who voted one way for one political party find they are lumbered with a person favouring policies from another.

Four of the eight Reform UK Party Ltd MPs were elected as Tories. It's a great party for turncoats.

“They are all terrified of him - which is a very good sign indeed!”

@BloominNora Who is “All”?
Certainly the bond markets seem terrified today which is also costing the taxpayer, aka all of us!

The trouble with Labour left factions is even if you tell them exactly why it is a bad idea and cite economic evidence and legal precedent, they will still find ways to blame on the “Right”, “all”, the right wing media.
Rather than actually go with the rationale truth.

We are all screwed and some!

Well I’ve obviously riled you since you’ve had to resort to petty name calling. And I still stand by my argument that winning an election by gaining the votes of a mere 20% of the voting-age population is nothing to boast about. As for your second paragraph, it’s so childish and ridiculous that I’m not even going to dignify it with a response.
And yes, it’s pretty obvious you are a Labour voter. I’d bet my house on it.

I don't think people understand the support Reform has at the moment. It is immense. Burnham the poster boy won't even scrape the surface of the electorate in a local election. His political career will crash and burn. It will be hilarious.

I think you misunderstand. There’s a 6 month wait for members to vote so this is not a Labour specific problem.

I would find it incredibly depressing if I had to sufficiently under estimate my fellow citizens to imagine yours was a widely held view.
If people support Reform because they believe they would be the best to govern, then that's one thing. But to want them to win because its all 'a laugh', and to be able to put any antipathy towards their policies aside in a wave of hilarity (wry or otherwise) makes the electorate sound like a bunch of half wits.
And I've more respect for my fellow citizens than to imagine them as that.

It is a risk and the electorate may well protest.

And looking back in the future, Labour have a huge majority in Parliament and could do so much if they actually got their act together. All very depressing for most of us!

I do not think it is about “laugh” @5128gap - many are protest voting and have been since Brexit. It is important to understand that. It is not personal, it is about the system and their role in it.
And if you throw the weight of a technical electoral system at them and they feel manipulated yet again, of course the risk of a protest vote goes up!

And then what?

It's because of the clear-out that there isn't a decent candidate in the parliamentary party at the moment, at least not one prominent enough to win a leadership bid and given the iron clad control Starmer's supporters had on the NEC up until recently, I suspect that most of the new lot are from the same neo-liberal view point or are total yes men / women as anyone else would have been weeded out at selection.

In the bid to get rid of Corbyn the neo-liberal side of the party also got rid of all of the prominent and experienced centre left democratic socialists, with one or two exceptions.

The ones that are left are either not leadership material (for example, I love Jess Phillips, but think she's much more effective as a firebrand agitator - I don't think she'd be good at the compromises needed to be PM and I wouldn't want her to have to compromise) or too tainted by the Blair / Brown era and their personal connections (e.g. Yvette Cooper).

People keep calling Starmer a democratic socialist - whether he is or not personally, he's not running his government that way. If he was he wouldn't have put Rachel Reeves in as chancellor and there would have been much more effective change.

Burnham should have got the Gorton and Denton nomination - it was short sighted of Starmer to block it and it has probably hastened his demise.

The Makerfield seat might be a bit of a swizz in how it has come about, but it's not a true 'parachuting' in given his connections and proven track record in the area.

If Burnham does win Makerfield and then the leadership and he is as effective as I think (hope?) he will be, then no-one will care by the next election how he ended up there.

Yes, Reform taking the seat would be entertaining indeed.

I mentioned laughing in response to the PP who said she and others want Reform to win over Burnham, despite not supporting Reform because it would be 'hilarious'.
I'm sure there are many reasons people might prefer Reform to win this seat than Burnham, ranging from support for Starmer, to belief in Reform, and indeed to thwart what they might see as manipulation.
But the idea that a significant proportion of people would want a Reform MP because it would make them laugh, suggests a very low level of intelligence in the electorate, which is actually quite insulting.
The results will be interesting as they will be a useful barometer of whether Burnham as a person can see off Reform, which he would be required to do in a GE. If he can't, it makes sense to know now. And presumably if he loses he will simply continue as mayor of Manchester, which hardly makes him a laughing stock.

In order to parachute in an alternate candidate (as Labour have done), the sitting MP has to resign. I can't imagine any Reform MPs (or indeed MPs of any stripe) volunteering to do this, and they cannot be forced by their party.

Or the Labour Party could just sit down with Rachel Reeves and her fiscal rules and avoid much of the drama!
But I guess Cloud LaLaLand is more what? Entertaining?
Not for the electorate and all of us who are paying hundreds of pounds extra for the shenanigans.

Reform might have to get a new policy at this rate, I reckon if their policy was "Let"s just get rid of Labour" they would still win.

https://thepienews.com/uk-study-visa-applications-plunge-40-in-april/

I do wonder, and unlike you I'm not one for house punts, whether this is all because you read 'majority' as 'win' in my initial post and don't want to admit it or whether you genuinely are so partisan that you think nobody who doesn't support a political party would ever acknowledge that they won a thumping majority in a UK election.

What I do know, though, is that you realise you've absolutely no answer to give to my question about the 1997 and 1945 elections that won't let me call you a tit again, so you had to resort to bosom hoiking instead. To give you fair warning, I'm absolutely going to keep pushing this point if you continue, so you can make an informed decision about whether to back yourself into that particular corner.

Am not a Reformer voter either if you are fishing.
I have no particular affiliation to any particular party.

“The results will be interesting as they will be a useful barometer of whether Burnham as a person can see off Reform, which he would be required to do in a GE.”

It is pretty arrogant to assume that none of the other parties matter in the next GE? Green, Lib Dem, even Torie?
Why already crown Reform as de facto opposition?
When what is going to happen in terms of coalitions etc is anyone’s guess at this point.

The whole saga is utterly baffling.

Costs is a better point than claims that this isn't democratic. I live in GM so not especially excited about the money involved in a new mayoral election.

You brought up the issue & I thought that this was a good example of the contempt these MPs have for their voters. There have always been odd occasions of MPs crossing the floor of the house but I think it's unprecedented to have four MPs in the chamber elected as the member of one party sitting as members of another. The fact that all four gave up the Tory whip to sit as MPs for Reform UK Party Ltd is notable.