Andy Burnham - how can this be allowed?

[Boopybop]

I know that there is a long way to go over the coming weeks, with by-elections and leadership challenges. But fundamentally - how can it be right that a man who was not even a candidate in the General Election, was therefore not voted for in the General Election - become Prime Minister? Effectively, the people of Makerfield are selecting the country’s new Prime Minister (as it is pretty obvious that AB would win a leadership contest).

This feels wholly undemocratic in every way.

AIBU - Andy Burnham has every right to become PM

AINBU - it is not right that a by-election in Makerfield can determine who the next Prime Minister will be

@HelenaWaitingyou can see why this is different to Johnson running as @SweetSummerHerbspp

Besides that do you think Burnham can turn the local election tide and win the by-election?

You think getting 20% of votes from the voting electorate is a colossal majority?! Even Corbyn got more votes than that when he lost against the Tories (Corbyn got 27.5%).

It really isn’t a colossal majority, but then you are a Labour voter so I’m not surprised you are saying that 🙄

Just heard someone say burnham is a man for the people. I honestly only see him as a man out for himself and who will change his position if it benefits him

I am in an online book group. Started in Covid with old Uni friends. Ladies from across UK and other countries.
The current situation came up.

We all agreed that the situation is media driven but by whom?
All agreed that other international players were behind or stoking the fire.

What was interesting was that two life long Labour supporters were very annoyed.
The one from the Greater Manchester area is not happy that the people of the North West were pawns in a UK debarcle. Losing an excellent Mayor who gave the North West an identiy and the manipulation of others to set up the post.
Again possible outside interferene? Or a cunning plan to get rid of a Labour MP and Mayor!

The other a Scot who was disgusted by Wes Steering sneeting attitude to Scotland. She stated if he becomes PM she will resign from the Labour Party which she joined as a student.
Seemingly. she is not alone. She ponders if this would be the end of Scottish Labour! Seemingly, his comments and attitude drove dome of her Scottish friends to vote SNP.

The Labour party have opened a can of worms. It is not doing the country any good.

We must ask who is behind it all?

Yes, because we have a parliamentary FPTP system that doesn't assign seats based on percentage of votes received across the entire electorate/votes cast. 411 seats in a 650 (functionally 643 cos of SF) is a colossal majority. One of the biggest of the mass franchise period.

Again, nothing wrong in arguing that this is bad. But one of the best arguments you could make is that our system does allow for these disparities. If, otoh, you want to pretend that the winning party having two thirds of the seats isnt a colossal majority, actually that minimises the impact.

"We do not know enough about the actual policy changes a Reform UK-led government would impose"

Stopped reading at the second paragraph.

The point of a sovereign nation with it"s own laws and borders and being the 5th or 6th biggest economy in the world is that it can tweak visa rules to fill labour shortages any time it wants, but we need to get young people born here trained up and entering the work force first before we import millions from abroad, all the EU style FOM does is suppress wages for working people and increase borrowing as people move to more expensive cities like London (win win for bankers and Big Corp!)

The best move Labour can make is to accept they are going to lose to Reform and start nationalising all the important stuff, railways would be an excellent start, stop babbling about "diversity" and bending the knee to the EU and start nationalising, that way if Nigel wants to sell out and privatise necessary services and infrastructure to his rich pals he will have a difficult political process to negotiate.

He looks too much like an Action Man figure to me, I can"t trust that look.

I don't know why Lisa Smart is talking as thought Simons has handed the role to Burnham. He's stepped down, thus giving Burnham and others, including her own party, the opportunity to stand to replace him.
Are people so confident that Burnham will win they actually see this as a gift? And are already assuming Manchester will require a new mayor? If so, that's encouraging.

Who do you think is behind it all? No one is holding a gun to Andy Burnham's head and forcing him to stand in Mackersfield.

Nothing is more Labour than a bit of factional in-fighting and jostling for position - they are (sadly) entirely capable of doing this to themselves without any external influences pulling the strings!

There's plenty going on in the world where we need to be looking at the forces behind it all...but this? Nah, it's just Labour being Labour.

I get you OP

In a normal by election where the incumbent has resigned due to ill health or whatever, you’re voting for an MP to represent your ward in an existing parliament with an existing prime minister

This is a different situation because the effect of the vote, if in AB’s favour, could very well lead to a new PM. Essentially the voters would be voting for a PM.

Like the rest of them then?

It is technically allowed. However, in all likelihood the electorate will punish this kind of move massively. It is too letter of the law rather than spirit of it!

And the common man on the street thinks in terms of “spirit”.

I think you have a point, @Boopybop. I feel.very uneasy that AB is being seen as some sort of superhero who is going to parachute in waving a magic wand. He seems to have a good track record in Manchester but he's an unknown quantity to me.

And in response to your edit @Marmalademorning, you have no idea how I voted and you sound like a tit suggesting being able to count how many seats a party won is a Labour voter specific trait.

Does this apply just to the 2024 GE, or is it true of every other substantial majority ever won? Because there's quite a few where I wasn't old enough to vote, or even born, so perhaps accurately describing the outcome of the 1997 vote is going to retrospectively grant me a special kids franchise. 1945? Describing 1951 is going to get complicated!

? KS made sure that AB did not stand in G&D. He would have won had he done so. Then Labour lost it did they not?

Maggie Oliver has said she doesn't want to stand.

point one Andy Burnham may not get in.
point two Andy Burnham may not get the required 81 MP supporters to put himself forward as a candidate for Prime Minister
point three Andy Burnham may not get chosen to be Prime Minister.

I am not sure how well liked Andy Burnham is by labour MP's in general although they may think he would make them more electable. I suspect that WS would rather have him inside the tent pissing out.

Yes, it is laughable isn"t it.

If we think forward to the next election and the danger of a Reform government and the potential of what kind of precedent Labour is setting by doing this.

What would stop Reform then parachuting in all sorts of new rich MPs in random areas once this precedent has been set, by Labour itself? I mean is this not actually a real danger that they will get themselves elected on a protest vote and then just start replacing MPs too?

Is there are precedent in the past of MPs being parachuted in like this? I guess not for a leadership contest, but to change the power dynamics in an existing party?

LOL

Stopped reading at the second paragraph. This says it all about you, your attention span and your ability to ingest, digest and process information.

we need to get young people born here trained up and entering the work force - Ha! Good luck trying. Your despised Europeans are here working hard at all the jobs the homegrown 'talent' doesn't deign to get its hands dirty with. I am one of those pesky immigrants working and paying taxes here.

I think the question is why a by-election constitutes parachuting any more than a general election does? Parties run preferred candidates in seats they judge to be most expedient all the time, it's a feature of our system. Millionaire or otherwise, they still have to win enough votes.

What is the cost to the tax payer of a by-election?

I certainly do not want to be paying for ad infinitum musical chairs that go against the spirit of democracy (aka some MP voluntarily giving up his seat just like that for no pertinent reason other than political posturing). And I doubt most other tax payers want to either!
So beware of the precedent.

Also did they not just tell us recently that they are thinking of deferring some local council elections to save money?

Who is paying for all of this?

At least in England you can have a by election
In Northern Ireland we have MPs and MLAs who get in... resign from the job and the seat is then co opted...
Last time this happened a few months ago a man resigned and his wife took his seat

https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-voting/by-elections/

A by-election is held when a seat becomes vacant. This can happen when an MP:

• resigns or dies
• is declared bankrupt
• takes a seat in the House of Lords
• is subject to a successful recall petition
• is convicted of a serious criminal offence.

The “spirit” is very much specific listed circumstances.

Not, cost the tax payer X Y Z to deliberately make way for someone else?

So is the word “resigns” for whatever reason in the broadest sense? And what precedent does this set for all including the taxpayer?