To think Andy Burnham will not make Labour any more electable.

[4thweekofjuly]

I think there is little appetite for a new PM and a new Labour leader will make 0 difference to their chances of winning. I also think the best the public can hope for, from any government, is a slow, well managed decline. I don't think there is much of a future in the UK and the public need to accept the social contract is no more. .

Agreed. Josh has done so much good work with and for our local communities and was always a visible presence who was more than happy to engage with people.

Cheltenham like me?

He might may well make a dent in Reforms popularity. We shall see.
The disturbing idea of Reform being in Government is real.
A massive buyers remorse would set in very fast as the dawning realisation of the practical reality would hit home.
Any opposition has to spell it out to people what Reform would mean to them . Insurance based health . How much will thst cost each individual each month? Likely no pension.
etc etc

They would be doomed if they ended up with a majority and were able to implement their policies.

Even in the best case scenario for their economic-shock policy, there would be a years-long period of economic downturn before the hypothetical emergence of a dynamic, reworked economy.

Good luck relying on the patience of the electorate...

i think many people already understand that. It’s a complicated situation as a lot of people lost hope a long time ago and voting reform a form of protest at being discarded by Starmer and his pals.

@Rbof Why have these people been discarded? Pensions have gone up, minimum wage has gone up, fewer immigrants, etc. We cannot control world events and Starmer is right not to join the USA. I would agree taxes are too high and borrowing costs for the government are ludicrous. All of our tax take is taken up by benefits and pensions so we just keep borrowing to fill the gap. Your average voter has no idea about this. So what do they feel discarded about? The fact they cannot have jam today because there’s no fruit? Do they expect higher taxes that suppress business even further? Or are they just green eyed about other better off people? It’s difficult to see how they have been discarded. It’s easier to blame external issues and others for doing better.

He in an idiot who hates women and can’t tell the truth so no. I would not come back into the Labour fold to vote for him. Streeting maybe

Are you serious? Do you not understand what is to live in a post industrial community? I can’t even be bothered to engage with you if you’re so simplistic in your reasoning you believe it’s down to them being ‘green-eyed.’

I’d love to meet a man that does not hate women.

I agree with all this, except I think we'd be better sticking with Starmer. He's great internationally (important atm) and whilst hrs wooden & uninspiring domestically, Labour are beginning to make good progress. Steel, renters rights, employment rights, NHS waiting lists, the economy (wars notwithstanding). I don't need my PM To be 'inspiring' (or even particularly likeable) I'd just like them to get on with the job. Internal machinations & changes of leaders ended the Tories, Labour should be avoiding this!

A bisexual election??

Yes they are making progress. They just seem to be a bit crap about getting it out there - pr the right wing press are not interested in reporting it.

I actually don’t disagree that the whole thing is a mess and shouldn’t have happened but once people started resigning I think it was inevitable. Burnham knows he’s the only one who can challenge Starmer and win people back from Reform. As I said earlier I hope Josh Simons gets the Mayoral role. I actually think that would suit him because he loves being hands on. Plus his wife had a baby a few weeks ago. He now has three very young kids and the family are very involved in the community and have settled in Wigan. I’m pretty sure travelling to London for long periods of time would be challenging for any parent. The north west would benefit massively with a northern PM and Josh as mayor. He’s from Bury originally I think.

@hattie43Reform or Greens could well win by election. Not good ...
@MrsShawnHatosyI agree completely. Labour are doing tolerably well in the circumstances (war etc). They are doing fairly badly at getting the message across. But the press (& the BBC) are promoting Reform like nobodies business & putting the boot I to Labour, especially now, for 'clicks'. It's hugely irresponsible. Quite disappointed with Sir Ed Davey in this respect too.

Greens will not win in Makerfield

The scenario I see unfolding is as follows:

Neither Streeting nor Rayner will trigger a leadership contest until the Makerfield by election result. This then creates 8 weeks of political uncertainty that causes gilt yields to go up costing everyone.
Then there is the £5 million cost of the Manchester Mayoral by election and the Makerfield by election. The result of which is that Reform win in Makerfield and possibly even the Manchester Mayoral election.
Burnham is then out of the picture and the voters are mightily pissed off for this self inflicted chaos.
Rayner or Streeting then decide to either shut up or more likely make a bid for leadership themselves.
The Labour Party members seeing how pissed off the voters are with this fiasco back Starmer to stay in power.
Starmer then limps on with a divided Labour Party and a country whilst somewhat sympathetic to him for this shit show not of his making but very pissed off with the Labour Party.
Labour popularity sinks even lower, Greens and Reform benefit.
If it gets really bad then there maybe an election before 2029. But more likely a weak divided Government limping on to a 2029 election where Reform end up as the biggest party and forms some kind of coalition with Conservatives but with Badenoch resigning (which would be a shame as she is the most capable one out of everyone).
The end.

I’ve gone through 10 pages of Google results to try and find out information about JS. Everything I could find was about his time at university or his work as a student journalist, or him stepping down as a minister. I have tried to find relevant things! I’m glad he’s been a good MP for you.

How do you know he hates women?

His social media accounts give a very comprehensive idea of what he does. I am surprised you missed that. A campaigner for the clearing of the Bickershaw illegal dump was on GMB this morning. She described the work he did and Andy Burnham had big shoes to fill in terms of the work Josh has done as a constituency MP. Just because you haven’t been looking in the right place for the information you want, doesn’t negate the real life experience of thousands of people.

I’m not on social media, so that’s probably why I couldn’t access it.

Just because you haven’t been looking in the right place for the information you want, doesn’t negate the real life experience of thousands of people.

I think this is a bit bloody harsh!!

I did try quite hard to find out relevant information about JS’s work and I couldn’t find anything about his work as an MP, so I asked you about it, as you seemed to know a lot about it. Where have I said anything that ‘negates the experience of thousands of people’?

All I was doing in my initial posts about JS is suggest how his potential job swapping with AB might come across. I used to be a journalist - and in fact, worked on the same student newspapers that JS edited! - and I know what sort of headlines the papers are likely to come up with.

Voting Reform started out as a chance to give the uni parties a good kicking - because this chasing votes from trans has alienated women, chasing votes from Islam pwahahaha they just go Independent, not seeming to have the balls regarding deporting migrant criminals, rapists, gangs and fraudsters, unable to ‘smash the gangs’ and stop the boats, marauding kids running through supermarkets unchecked, check them and your sacked, high streets full of knife wielding kids, ridiculous barbers mini marts and nail bars, shoplifting rife while cops checking the old hurty words on line. Paedophiles in every town with images of babies walking free. MPs swapping jobs with their pals for personal gain and on and on. Do you really think the people who voted in the locals were all out of work skin heads who beat their wives? Nope just ordinary folks sick to the back teeth of inaction from spineless Government so let’s have a change can’t be any worse.

To be honest @Thefastandthecurious5 you’ve said repeatedly how you haven’t read anything about him except which university he went to. I don’t know why that’s significant to you? Andy Burnham also went to Cambridge. It’s not a negative to be bright and from Wigan. You seemed to want people to believe that there is no evidence that a massively community minded and proactive MP was anything other than a blow in chancer. That’s simply not true.

Your constituency sounds exactly like mine. Olney and Goldsmith?

I for one completely understand where you are coming from with this. A tiny part of me is glad Reform have given Labour a kicking because a lot of them deserve it. I don’t however believe Reform are the answer. They are led by millionaires who don’t have ordinary people’s best interests at heart. Wee need better Labour, and for that matter Tory politicians, than extreme right (and left) wingers.

I think those saying AB won’t win Makerfield are underestimating his popularity. Polls consistently show he is the most popular Labour politician.

Whether this will remain the case should he take office will be very interesting to see, and will of course depend on his ability to deliver.