Dd, autism and cake - thread 3

[bendmeoverbackwards]

Thank you all a million for continuing to support me, it means everything to me.

Well done. Stick to your guns and don’t engage in any of these conversations. Just repeat that you’ve made your position clear and that’s that. Put on headphones or go to your bedroom and lock the door. The end.

I agree that the relationship has become toxic and IMO the best thing you can do for her is to change the terms of your interactions. She will no doubt double down on the manipulation and emotional blackmail. Stay strong!

The continual nudging you - I would lose my shit. Have you ever just lost it at her or do you always moderate your responses?

I have on occasion. But then I get so riled up I can’t sleep for ages.

This is emotional blackmail at its finest, “you had kids and now won’t talk to them” 😆 What she means is that you won’t talk about what she wants to talk about!

She is really trying to tug at your maternal instinct to give in and make everything better OP but nothing you do will ever be good enough, you literally can’t win whatever you say. Stay strong 💪

I have an adopted autistic daughter who is very different from your DDs but I know how easy it is to end up in these strange situations when they are so controlling
The nudging you is abusive, she doesnt mean it to be but it is. She needs to understand that that is not going to happen in future. I would explain, calmly, that you would be within your rights to call the police if she does that.
You are doing well by sticking to your boundaries.Keep at it. Don't get into debates. "You need to see a therapist" if she keeps goinh on about the past etc Does she interact with people outside of the home? Obviously the baby sitting people but any others?

'We have already discussed the past at length. I will not discuss these matters with you any more.'

'If you can't move on from the past you should talk to a therapist. We are happy to help with the cost.'

Stonewall her. And for goodness sake stop allowing your adult children to invade your bedroom! The spider nonsense is just perpetuates childish behaviour. If you really can't bare the thought of an adult dealing with a spider bring in a whole family rule that all spider problems are communicated to your husband by text if you are already in bed. You do not need to be involved at all. Tell toxic daughter that any abusive behaviour leads to immediate loss of allowance - but you must follow through on that.

One of the things I've come to learn is that repeated responses lead someone with fixed ideas to think more discussion means you are going to change your mind, even if you are saying "no" again. For my DCs this means not responding at all past the first "no we're not doing that" and then "I'm not talking about it and more".
With younger children you can at least walk into another room or put on your headphones.

So what would you say in response to dd when she says (either by text, on the phone or face to face) ‘will you answer my messages?’

My son is similar in so many ways but different in others. I have learned that doing what PP has said is the only thing that works. Black and white.

I reply to healthy messages. I ignore unhealthy messages. When questioned on it, I say I’ve told you I’m not discussing that any further. And then I don’t.

This behaviour is abuse. I know it’s abuse and I do my best to not allow it, but it’s really hard. She needs to move out, and so does my son.

Also I really don’t think a therapist while living with you is the answer. It’s a voice who is paid to validate her absolutely crazy version of events.

She needs to move out and THEN she needs therapy. Or it will just become ‘my therapist says you need to…’. She will use it to manipulate you endlessly.

And make no mistake, that’s what she’s doing. It’s manipulation.

‘No’ Just that

I would say no once eg ‘no, we have discussed this and I have said that I won’t answer messages about the past’ and then ignore all unhelpful messages thereafter and I would mute her for a period and go to bed in my bedroom with the door locked!

So your adult children are so scared of spiders and bugs that you cannot possibly lock the bedroom door, but you and your husband go away on holidays (at least short breaks) at times? What do your children do then? What does your autistic daughter do when there’s a tiny bug in her room but you’re both not there?

All of these are terrible laughable excuses that don’t justify an answer. The ‘too traumatised’ one is especially riling in its privilege given that people with PTSD due to rape or military service still manage to go to therapy.

I am glad that you see now how abusive this relationship is. The nudging is beyond the pale for anyone over 5 years old let alone 19. Bodily autonomy is an important principle

Does she only treat you in this way and not anyone else? She doesn’t text her friends like this or poke them does she? You are the punchbag and it’s bad for her as well as you. It’s no pattern to learn for close relationships

I can’t believe this has got to three threads, she is harassing you in your own home and you need to ask her to leave.

Think about your other children!

If my kids say "but WHY aren't you telling me" when they have asked five times if they can have ice cream and I said no the first two times, I don't say anything.
If DH comes in and they ask him instead, I say to him "we aren't talking about that".

Please can someone link thread 1? I’ve searched OP’s username but can’t find it :( Thanks! 🙏

@bendmeoverbackwards we are right behind you, but you've got to step back and see the big picture. You are actively enabling this situation.

The bedroom issue does not need careful thought. Once you are in your room and the door is shut, your room is out of bounds unless there is a genuine emergency. You can set out what constitutes an emergency.

DD2 can say goodnight earlier, or she can text you goodnight.

Your DD3 nudges you when you don't reply to her! This has to stop. It's abuse.

"She says ‘to possibly do anything in the future I have to feel fully understood about the past"

No. She won't feel fully understood about the past because her understanding is inaccurate. Nothing you say will make her understood because she doesn't understand herself.

"DD3 I'm sorry you feel misunderstood. I think I have a good understanding of why you feel we have let you down. You are going to have to find a way of moving past this because otherwise the future will become yet more past that you're disappointed in."

She needs to move out and THEN she needs therapy. Or it will just become ‘my therapist says you need to…’. She will use it to manipulate you endlessly.

@Bedroomdilemmas113 there’s no way she’d even consider therapy at the moment. Because of the trauma that I inflicted, she can’t engage with ANY professionals.

DD2 can say goodnight earlier, or she can text you goodnight.

@Lougle

The only problem with this is, I’m sure dd2 will feel that she can’t even pop in to say goodnight because of the actions of her sister. And having unintentionally sidelined dd1 and dd2 over the years, I have to think very carefully about their feelings.

Get them each one of these to use and let them try. It’s not mean to encourage them to do something even if you don’t mind. That how you cultivate growth and self resilience in young adults.

dealing with insects in the home is just another chore they need to learn.

Agree.

What is going on here, OP? Is there something about putting your foot down that makes you uncomfortable?

You seem quite stuck yourself OP. Even just making your bedroom out of bounds needs a big thinking operation. Maybe rather than overthinking you need to communicate better with DD1 and DD2. Have you now apologised for sidelining them? Start there and say you see you have been enabling DD3. That will stop going forward but will mean some changes may affect them too.
what is it that they need from you? If the bedroom doesnt come up - great. If it does explain why it doesn’t work for you tell them why and find an alternative together.
you seem to struggle to say no to all your daughters. It’s not a big deal that needs careful thought! They are all adults!

if DD3 pesters you say ‚no‘. That’s all. Walk away. Go out if needs be.

No, you don't. DD2 is not going to be broken by a boundary. Your alternative is to only ban DD3, telling her that her behaviour is unacceptable and until she can change her behaviour she can't come in your room. But you don't seem willing to do that either.

Someone linked to the SPACE programme www.spacetreatment.net/ in another thread and I think you might find it helpful. You can't change your DD3. You need to change you and to understand that the way you are behaving is accommodating and growing your DD's behaviour. The only way she's going to change is if you change the way you are behaving.

Will it be painful? Yes. Will she hate it that you are not responding as you always have? Yes. But she will be helped by it.

I have that book, it’s fantastic and makes so much sense. Dd def has some OCD traits, she likes doors and cupboards to be closed and me using my middle finger on my phone seems to really bother her.

What is going on here, OP? Is there something about putting your foot down that makes you uncomfortable?

It’s a slow process and I can’t tackle all the issues overnight. It’s been so entrenched for years, I’m not surprised my confidence is lacking. The changes we’ve made so far - to taper down her allowance over a few months, Dh has informed her of this and we will 100% stick to it; and now I’ve told her I’m not responding to messages or talking about the past. Which is good progress on my part. The bedroom door needs looking at next.

Dd2 is home from her travels next week and I think it’s a good time to have a family meeting to reset and make a plan re chores etc. Dd3 obviously won’t attend but we will make it very clear that she is not exempt from chores and following other rules put in place whilst we are accommodating her. Dd1 and dd2 are generally very easy to live with, they help out, cook when work allows and dd1 pays a small amount of rent.