Dd, autism and cake - thread 3

[bendmeoverbackwards]

Thank you all a million for continuing to support me, it means everything to me.

I think you are definitely making progress since your first thread so YANBU :)

Oh! I was on the first thread but missed the second. Can someone link? Thanks.

Glad you’re finding it helpful Op. Please do think of your own wellbeing.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5496272-dd-autism-and-cake-thread-2?page=40&reply=152298856

Link to previous thread 2

She says ‘to possibly do anything in the future I have to feel fully understood about the past’ 🤷‍♀️

Then she needs to engage with therapy because you have said all you are going to say .

Agree, if she really does need to look at the past then she needs a real therapist who can explore these things properly. Using you as an emotional punchbag isn't getting her anywhere.

She is holding your future relationship hostage with that phrase OP, it’s basically saying her progress depends completely on your compliance with her demands.

Then SHE needs to go to therapy, OP. But I think everyone would benefit from going to therapy.

Baby steps sound positive

Try to ignore these attempts to spin the narrative her way. It's just another tactic to control and manipulate you, as well as to stay where she is. She's stuck and it feels comfortable to her, though in reality she also sounds miserable. She needs to have an incentive to move out of her comfort zone. Obsessing over the past won't help her and on some level she probably knows that. But it has become something she has found useful as leverage, especially since she must be aware of the guilt you feel (misplaced guilt IMO).

I was shocked by the description at the end of the last thread of your DD haranguing you for hours and refusing to leave your room late at night, even "nudging" you (so invading your physical space). That behaviour is appalling and in your shoes I would draw a very firm line that she can never do that again. A lot of her behaviour sounds annoying and difficult to deal with, but this description sounds downright abusive.

Yes. And thinking about it, it’s strange that she needs her mother to understand before she can move on. I’m pretty sure my own mother didn’t understand everything about me but that was ok, just got on with life.

The late night interrogations are abuse. It's hard but you can't normalise abusive behaviour. She's already managed to alienate her own sisters and it wouldn't surprise me if your DH also gives up on her should her poor treatment of him continue. Remember potential employers or flatmates are going to have far less tolerance of her bad behaviour than her family.

I think that's code for "agree with me and do everything I want you to do". Sorry.

I read your threads, but didn't initially comment as I was very shocked also I'm not a parent

Anyway, hope it all turns out well for you both

You know, whenever she throws something back at me and I start to worry again, I feel very much reassured by reading your very sensible comments and I then get my mojo back again

Thank you, you are a wonderful bunch of women (I’m assuming all women!). I feel a bit pathetic that I can’t work this out for myself but I suppose it’s to be expected after being so entrenched. And I am gradually gaining my confidence.

So she says she send all those texts because she can’t talk in person, but then she demands late night discussions in your bedroom. You need to start locking your bedroom door every night.

@bendmeoverbackwards your situation reminds me of a colleague who couldn't get her 20 something daughter out of the house

The daughter used to shout at her parents and siblings to the point that you could hear her screaming at them when you were halfway up the road. That's the only reason the colleague told me. We were meeting at her house and she ended up having to tell me. I almost walked in and said "oh my God, someone in your road is having a terrible domestic". It was really shocking to walk that distance and realise I was stopping at the house where the noise was coming from!

It was a huge mission of family therapy, paying her rent to go and live somewhere else, and eventually refusing to let her in except for Sunday lunch

I'm no longer in touch, so I hope it turned out nicely but I feel like the daughter ran through so many ways to legitimise her behaviour, ultimately she had to learn that people weren't going to put up with it.

in the family therapy session, she did end up admitting that she didn't want to leave the family home, didn't want to get a job, and just wanted to stay at home with mum and dad and the dog.

I think the fact that her siblings were growing up to do the usual things was probably helpful. It was an absolute nightmare period for my colleague so I really hope it passed.

I do think I’d be bluntly honest that life doesn’t work that way. She needs to do something about her future as an adult and if she feels she needs to explore the past to accomplish this then she needs to speak to a therapist. You can support and financially assist but you can’t do it for her.

Keep persevering with this OP. You need to break this never ending cycle.

Just repeat the stock phrases twice, then ignore.

“You can’t move forward if you’re constantly looking backwards”

”I understand you feel hurt but I can’t change the past”

“I love and support you but I will not engage in conversations that only punish me.”

Rinse and repeat.

Hold firm.

You are so enmeshed and frankly a victim of her abuse. You sound like you have patience of a saint.
How are things generally this week?

Please don't call yourself "pathetic." You're in the middle of the situation and your love for your DD, your worry for her future, your sense of guilt (again, misplaced IMO) all combine to make everything harder for you to see the situation clearly. The people responding to your threads have distance that enables them to be more objective.

I have seen a similar dynamic play out in my own family, and my parents just gave up at a certain point and allowed my brother to live the small life that he derived comfort from. TBH I don't think that was the right approach. He's extremely bright and longs for human connection, but he has never held a job or made a friendship independently. He's never been abusive and has always helped out around the house, etc. and I know he feels safe. But I can't help experiencing tremendous sadness about the life he could be leading.

Regarding the bedroom door, this needs some thinking about. Dd2 (when she’s home) likes to pop in to say good night, but it’s very quick and she doesn’t disturb us too late. The other issue is spiders/bugs - dd3 is scared of them and asks me or Dh to remove a bug. Dd1 also isn’t good with spiders, she can deal small ones but big ones require Dh. So I’m not sure if a blanket ban on them coming in is practical. If we say ‘emergencies only’ dd3 has a very different idea of what constitutes an emergency than us.

You, your DH and other children are suffering from a form of domestic abuse. I think you should speak to the police about it. Perhaps they can spell it out to her that her behaviour is abusive and quite frankly disgusting. I can’t believe you’re all tip toeing around her. She is controlling all of you and you’re letting her. She needs a short, sharp shock to the system.

Personally I think with her being autistic then an absolute no to coming in our room is easier to understand.
If there’s a bug put a tub over it until morning, what would they do in a uni flat or if you were on holiday etc.
All 3 are adults.

I don't know if this will be any help to you, but I thought I'd share just in case. I know someone who had a similar situation with a very difficult adult son. In the end, what she did was tell him that as he was an adult, she was going to start treating him like one. This meant he needed to contribute by paying rent as adults do, which also meant he would need to get a job. She told him that if he didn't, he would have to leave and find his own accommodation. The son kicked off massively, but after looking at how much it would cost him to rent a room somewhere else, he eventually gave in, got a job in the local supermarket and started paying rent. Could you tell her, and your other daughters if they aren't doing so already, that you need them to start paying rent? If you don't want to keep the money, you could always put it aside without telling them for something in the future, like help towards a house deposit. You can also write out a formal agreement, like you might with lodgers, with the amount of rent and also expectations of behaviour that need to be adhered to in order to live under your roof, as well as the notice period. You could tell your daughter she can either work or claim benefits in order to pay the rent, as either would be an improvement on the status quo by the sound of it. If she claimed Universal Credit, she would have to have a work coach and look for work a certain number of hours per week, and they wouldn't accept the kind of excuses she seems to give you based on your last thread. She would need medical evidence to not be required to look for work, or if she wanted to claim PIP. For that she would have to accept her diagnosis and engage with healthcare professionals, which although from what you say it doesn't sound like she'd be that likely to be considered to have severe enough autism to be eligible for pip or to not to be expected to work by universal credit, especially as she's able to babysit, do cooking when she chooses to and travel independently. The job centre would expect that she'd be able to work in a nursery or something like that as she has childcare experience. That could be a good thing as a nursery could potentially support her to do a nvq and that could go up to level 3 or foundation degree level potentially I'm a little out of date with exact qualifications jow. Good luck with whatever you decide, it sounds like such a difficult situation.