To be fed up with the WASPIs' renewed campaign?

[Jane379]

I sympathise with people who genuinely did not know but hiw many was this? And how would we know who to compensate even if the money were available?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/waspi-latest-compensation-legal-challenge-pension-b2976014.html

There was no contract though. If there was a contract, they would legally be entitled to compension. As this isn't the case, they aren't. The retirement age can change a number of times throughout someone's working life.

You didn’t pay into your state pension, you paid the pension of existing pensioners at the time. there is no state pension pot. It doesn’t work like that. That’s why there is a demographic timebomb on the way that will dwarf your perceived injustice.

@odddsoxs
Nobody “stole” anything from you.
There wasn’t a pot with your name on which a civil servant dutifully put your contribution into.
Your generation have had advantages that young people today will never have - free university, affordable housing, plentiful social housing, the ability to bring up a family on one salary, the best years of the NHS - to name a few.
The change in pension age was hugely advertised and surely as responsible women you (coll) should have been keeping an eye on your own future and retirement plans.
Pension is a benefit. It’s the biggest chunk of welfare payments by a country mile. UC payments -63 billion. Pensions -134 billion.
So young people are working harder for less to ensure that pensions are paid to a huge cohort of people who have a better life expectancy than the generations that come after them. Yes - you (coll) are the first generation who leave your children a shorter life expectancy .
And it’s still not enough!
Stop being so greedy! We can’t afford it!!
We need to invest in defence, not give billions of £££ to women who should have planned better.

👆👆 this.

5 years notice of a change is not much notice... even with access to (and contributing to...) private pensions, workplace pensions over the majority of working life- if would still be pause for thought and rejig of finances may be needed. I do have some sympathy....

But...

What it should show is that people need to plan for their own retirement- and take control of this. Not rely on the state to do this- as rules will change. And those who are in work and paying taxes and often are the ones making the decisions, can make these decisions to prioritise other people in society (eg young families). I wouldn't be surprised if those moving into power now, will flip things around so students and young families will be better off - to the detriment of the older generation. It won't happen in the next 5-10 years- but maybe in the next 20-30 years.

I say this as there was definitely more sympathy for older people before- suffered through wars etc etc the new people moving into this category are generally wealthier and have benefitted hugely from better economic times.

There will be a change. So, if you are 30ish, I'd be banking on that change and arrange long term finances accordingly.

The story of the WASPI women should be the example story for anyone, anywhere planning on relying on state money long term. All money coming from the state is at the whim of political (and economic) forces.

There are a few cases of WASPI women that need to be looked at more closely but it’s not something that affects them all.

I am just a few months too young to be included in the WASPI campaign, although still affected nearly as badly.
I knew about the 1995 changes and that I wouldn’t get my pension until age 65. It was many years away.
I do believe that some people genuinely didn’t know of the change. I managed to miss an important part of the 2016 changes, which will affect the amount I receive.
It is what it is. I consider it my fault that I didn’t make reasonable enquiries, and I don’t think the WASPI women should receive a payment because they didn’t either.

Of course they knew. Most are just claiming they didn't to try to force compensation. They know they can't argue against the principle of equal retirement age for men and women, so all they can do is claim they didn't know they were going to be affected. But in reality, the changes were literally everywhere - on TV, in newspapers and magazines, leaflets in GP surgeries/hospitals/dentist waiting rooms, leaflets in yearly correspondence such as tax code letters and benefit letters etc. Yes, maybe "some" weren't specifically told of the detail as to how it affected them, i.e. personal letters, but the general information was really well out there, and not just one-offs either, it was publicised for years. If anyone genuinely didn't know things were changing, they were living under a rock (or maybe living abroad).

It's this kind of magical thinking that inspired their campaign. What are you talking about? Contract? You don't have such a contract with the government or even your employer. Did you even work for the same employer all your life? It's possible.

Even if such a contract existed. Are all the terms of work fixed at the point you start? Are you still working on the same salary as when you started working? Or has that gone up?

We could all complain about every change: student fees ballooning, withdrawal of child benefit etc - I can’t see how the waspi women are a special case.

I won't get my state or occupational pension until 68 (something that has changed over my working life) and the mimimum age I can access my DC pensiion pot has risen and I suspect will rise again.

I also paid back student laons and some fees in my 20s, when my university planning (low income family) was based on there being higher grants available and no fees.

So my view on the WASPI campaign is cry me a fucking river.

Many of the WASPI women got child benefit and free Universities for their children then voted to remove child benefit and free Universities from the next generation.
If this change was made to benefit WASPI women I would like it to made cost neutral within the tax take from present pensioners. What would it take - rich pensioners paying NI? / A higher income state pension charge like for child benefit?
As a cohort the rich pensioners (not the poorer ones) have had things that won't come back for future generations so should support their poorer peers.

Nail on the head. NIC is just another tax. And it doesn't just pay for state pension, it pays for other state benefits and towards the NHS.

The ONLY people I have sympathy for are those who paid voluntary NIC contributions as they're specifically for gaining "years" to count towards state pension. Perhaps there should be some kind of compensation for those only, as they did, specifically, pay "into" their state pension entitlement and there is a kind of implied "contract" as to what they were paying for, as they'd have had letters from HMRC/IR/DWP/DHSS (depending on the year) confirming how their extra voluntary NIC payments would affect their state pension entitlement.

To free them up to care for elderly relatives?

This is an excellent point - whether it’s state pension, UC or any other form of state benefit. It’s the reason why people are mad to rely on public money, even if in the short term it seems a good deal. I’ve known people who are disincentivised from working, or certainly from working full time, because they rely on state funded top ups.

At the end of the day, you’re at the mercy of the government, the political choices and economic situation at any particular time.

women have been able to access workplace pension schemes on the same terms as men for the last 35 years or so at least. The fact that some might choose not to, or choose to take years out of the workplace, or spend literally years working only part time is obviously going to impact on their financial well being in the longer term. They might feel they have enough money in the ‘here and now’ but they can’t blame anyone else for their refusal to invest in the longer term

I'm a 'WASPI' pensioner.
I grew up in the era when we expected to retire at 60. I also grew up in an era when many of us stayed at home for years while the children were young, I had little choice. No help, no childcare, no wraparound, no free nursery hours etc.

By the time I went back to work I had to retrain all over again to join the job market. A subsequent divorce and single parenthood were financially difficult. No-one ever told me the goalposts had changed re. the retirement age, there were no adverts I ever saw and this idea that we all had letters ?? No-one I know ever had any letters to explain it, and I certainly didn't. Remember this was in the days when we didn't all have smart phones and didn't know everything in an instant via social media.

However, I am NOT a campaigning WASPI woman. I realise things had to change and accept that paying 'compensation' - although it would be nice, of course - is pretty impossible. And there's no money for it anyway.

I rely on a state pension alone and make it work, with a few part-time hours while I still can.
But I disagree with all the comments "we were all told", "how could you not know" and so forth...many of us really didn't know and didn't find out until it was really too late to make much provision.

One of the variables for setting pension age is trying to keep the proportion of life spent in retirement compared to working the same as it was for previous generations, so as we live longer, we work longer and get longer in retirement. Pegging it to a specific number of years isn't correct.

I do think they have a point. They didn’t have nearly long enough to make other plans as it takes years to build pension wealth.

However .... there are loads of unfairnesses that affect young people more.

• Sky high house prices meaning many will never buy
• Poor job prospects
• Stagnant economy
• Rising taxes due to aging population
• State pension age rising

Compensation would add to this unfairness as young people will effectively be paying it.

My understanding is that mistakes were made - as found in court, and admitted by government - but the government doesn’t fancy awarding any compensation to these women because in this one area, which just happens to focus on women, they can’t find the dosh.

I dont understand how they all claim to not have known.
I definitely knew about it! It wasn't some big secret

They didn’t get any money stolen from them.

I was born in 53 but worked till 70, in many ways I regret retiring. It's over, it's done and people need to move on.

Doesn’t mean they’re entitled to the money.

I think there was long enough to prepare for the first change, some really didn't have long to prepare for the second change. It seems the first change is what they campaign about which seems odd to me.

I can have sympathy for being upset and shifting goalposts.

But I can't get on board with compensation. Claiming you've "paid into" a government pension isn't true, it's a tax that we all pay. Current workers are "paying" for current pensions.

I am pushing 40 and don't expect to get a state pension at all by the time I'm 68 (or 70, or 75 or whatever the new age is!). So I would find it extremely unfair to make younger people than me, who I think are already hugely disadvantaged by high house prices/stagnant wages/low growth economy, to pay yet more for older generations

100% agree some of these women are talking out of their WASPIs. I work with one and she'll moan about about anything, everything and everyone. She calls herself a WASPI and everyone knows it, it's like a badge of suffering.🙄 But if someone makes the mistake of mentioning anything to do with politics, COL and working a couple of extra hours. She becomes a full on banging on about "My government pension, I've paid into" blah, blah.
She just doesn't get the fact that it's a benefit contributed to from NI and that funds everyone not just the individual who has paid into it.
When I started work I was told it was 60 but have know for years it would be higher than that in the future because I watched the news and read newspapers.
I don't believe these women didn't know or they chose to ignore it and stuck their heads in the sand hoping it wouldn't happen.