Ending marriages with children

[annoyedatlandlord]

My parents separated in my childhood, which meant I travelled back and forth between their houses. Once they both got new partners and had more children, I never felt truly welcome in either home because my step mum or dad prioritised their own nuclear family by blood.

My parents were deeply unsuitable for each other and would have made each other and me very unhappy had they stayed together, so despite the pain it caused me being divided between two families, it was the right decision.

However I often read on here or hear in real life the advice “is this how you want to spend the rest of your life? Divorce him” in response to someone in a marriage which has lost its shine or there are some differences in lifestyle etc.

A couple chooses to have children, I think keeping the home together for the sake of them is more important than meeting their own wants and whims. Even if that means therapy, hard work and agreeing on differences.

I am not talking about relationships where the couple is deeply unhappy and has unresolveable differences (for example one isn’t pulling their weight), which are making for an unhappy home.

AIBU to think the instinct to break up a family is too quick now?

Couldn't agree more OP.

YABU.

What actually happens in the real world is that one partner - usually the woman - wants to fix things and the other partner - usually the man - doesn't listen to a word she says, believes he's fine etc. It's all well and good to say couples should work on it but that requires both partners to be on board and IME men almost never are - they are happy to take advantage of the woman in their life and have no interest in talking about things or improving anything. This is true, IME, even of 'good' men. My best friend for example is married to a man I genuinely like, but he is a shit partner and all her attempts to improve things have fallen on deaf ears. She doesn't want to divorce but it kills me to see her so unhappy. I hope she doesn't look back when she's older and think she's wasted her life on him.

YANBU. Part of the reason there are so many break ups is because we don't have anyone to rely on for guidance and advice or examples of good relationships.

Our parents generation and their parents were also quick to break up.

Before the 1960s, divorce wasn't taken lightly at all and was only granted on the grounds of infidelity or abuse.

Now, no reason is required for divorce and kids are left to suffer with one parent families, absent parents and then go on to repeat the cycle.

This is pure nonsense. Before 1960 divorce didn't happen as much because it was legal for men to rape their wives, it was also effectively legal for them to beat their wives, women couldn't get any credit in their own name and were paid less for the same jobs, so were economically trapped. Women had horrendous lives. Looking back on that as something to aspire to borders on offensive tbh.

I'm not interested in a man versus woman debate. I was speaking to the OP who has a similar opinion. Feel free to debate with others.

You want to discuss marriage without talking about men and women?? What?

I want to talk to the OP about why divorce is so rampant and how it affects children. I don't care about others opinions on the past evils of men. I think they have a feminist board for that on MN. I'm not the person to engage with for that type of thing.

It sounds to me like you want to ignore reality, which is a bit pointless really.

Also, just in terms of board etiquette, you can't police other people's responses or tell them who they can reply to. That's not how this whole thing works.

What a shit situation for your friend. If he is an awful partner (and therefore dad) and it’s making her miserable, I would say it’s showing a bad example of relationships to the children and it would make sense to divorce.

My point is about boring marriages, marriages where there isn’t much in common anymore etc. I feel in those situations the children’s happiness should be prioritised over individual happiness of the parents as they didn’t choose to be born and have no control over their lives.

There definitely are valid reasons that ending a relationship is the best or only option — violence, infidelity, gambling, addiction, financial betrayal, emotional abuse etc. But in the case of “I’m bored” or “the spark has gone” I tend to agree. Seeing your child in pain is agonising, I can’t imagine putting them through that deliberately without one of those very good reasons. Otherwise, personally, I’d hang on until they leave home. Still plenty of time to find romantic happiness.

I also think that if you do separate from your child’s other parent you should commit to not having any more children to prevent exactly the kind of thing you experienced.

I think board etiquette also includes reading the OPs original statement and responding to it with relevance.

The OP stated that they believe divorce is right in some circumstances, including their parents, but society is too quick to just give up when there are challenges.

I offered reasons for that and then I'm told men are rapists and women had no rights etc as if that was the topic.

I don't engage with over emotive and irrelevant statements. It derails the post and becomes circular. I was trying to offer my time to help the OP and not get into a conversation where I hold no interest.

I hope this clarifies things.

OP - think why we do what we do is pretty self explanatory if you take this exchange as an example. Will look forward to how it evolves in a few days.

You said divorce happened less before 1960 saying it was down to the fact that it 'wasn't taken lightly.' That is not true, so I corrected you with the actual facts.

I don't know what is achieved by sitting in judgement on others and saying their reasons for leaving aren't 'bad enough' - i.e. this person should leave but this person shouldn't. I agree that divorce is very hard on children but I don't think it makes any sense to introduce some sort of validity criteria around when it is right and wrong - that's up to individuals.

The thought of two people who don't want to be together just slogging through years horrifies me - how can that be better for children? How can it be positive for them to see two unhappy people go through a bad relationship?

Agree with you OP. There has to be a higher threshold for divorce than “I’m bored and not living my best marriage life.”

I agree. As a child who's parents did exactly the same thing. Both my mother and father went on to have 2nd families. Although I am considerably closer to my maternal half siblings... I made a vow that my children would never suffer the same fate. If for a genuine reason I was to divorce DH (which I can never see happening) I would never have another family, more children or another marriage. Each to their own though.

I think if you transfer your focus from my comment, you'll see others agree and why. We're talking about things that can be worked through with effort and not the things you are talking about. That's why it's not making sense for you.

My goodness I could have written this post myself. I agree.

After years of trying to get my husband not to hoard, to clean up after himself, pull his weight around the house and stop being so selfish about his hobbies, I just couldn’t take it anymore… he didn’t see an issue with his actions and would always put himself first. Any changes would last a couple of days if that.

He would never accept responsibility or admit anything, just deflect on to me and argue that black is white rather than accept any responsibility.

YABU

Often the couples who have lost their 'shine' will become the people who are 'deeply unsuitable for each other' if they try and stick it out and then the contempt and resentment kicks in. Surely it is better to split earlier when you are still holding things together on the surface but rapidly breaking inside, rather than reaching the stage of full blown arguements, affairs and even abuse.

It is easy to judge other marriages and divorces from the outside and think that your parents situation was more than theirs, but you simple don't and can't know.

I am not talking about relationships where the couple is deeply unhappy and has unresolveable differences (for example one isn’t pulling their weight), which are making for an unhappy home.

But isn't this why people break up anyway? Obviously the exact reasons differ but fundamentally people break up as they're unhappy together and can't resolve their differences together don't they

Ideally both people would be selfless and emotionally intelligent enough to communicate about the loss of shine and then work on it before it gets worse.

But admittedly that isn’t always human nature, and nothing can change that.

I’m mixed on this but think I mostly agree with you.

I think that there is an automatic (and slightly toxic) reaction on many a MN thread when people tell the OP to ‘divorce him now!’ to the smallest issue. It’s ridiculous and unhelpful.

But beyond that, yes, I think generally divorce should be one of the last options after all other options have been tried. (Though of course that would not be the case in extreme instances, such as abuse, when the first action needs to be to get out and be safe).

My background is probably similar to yours, I was the only child of divorced parents and now have half or step siblings from later relationships my parents had. And I, like you, feel sometimes like I’m the forgotten one.

That doesn’t for a moment though mean that I wish my parents had stayed together. In some ways their divorce saved me. The arguments were awful (not violent) and they were fundamentally different people and I still don’t understand why they got together in the first place! They didn’t work and my life in a house with them together was unhappy. And they did the childcare part of divorce well. They protected me from a lot of it.

On the other hand, I know those of my parents generation that stayed together ‘for the kids’ and totally messed them up. Kids know. They feel if a house is an unhappy one, they know if their parents don’t want to be together.

Nowadays, with our financial mess, I know a few people who would be separated if they could afford to, but who still share a house because it’s their only option (at least as they can see). The kids will feel that. It must be awful for everyone.

I have no skin in this game as have no children, although my partner does. From watching those around me, I don't believe the 'instinct to break up a family' is too strong/quick. I could be wrong but most couples with kids have to be truly miserable before they admit defeat. So yes it still begs the question of why they are so miserable as (sometimes very new) parents when they were happy to 'coast' before they had them.

It's who you choose to have a family with in the first place. They're in love and they go ahead and have children, without asking themselves deeper questions about stability, compatibility, values, needs, what is and isn't working etc.

Again, I'm probably way off base! But that's the impression I get.

Miserable is miserable though it doesn’t matter the reasons imo. Whether it’s lack of love, respect or whatever. If one person isn’t happy then there’s reason to leave.

Of course you are right.

I've always thought it to be cruel to have more children when you already have a child from a previous relationship. It must be pretty shit for that child.

Of course, but you will be jumped on by those who tell you how great their blended family is and how their children "adore" the new bloke.