AIBU to hold the line on school and not listen to upset teenage rants

[Windywho]

Im afraid my AIBU is around the how much shit do you take from your clearly unhappy child.

So to give the backstory first; My DD17 has Dyspraxia and ADHD but is likely more Audhd (she doesn’t want to consider autism and we go with that) Her behaviour is pretty good in that there is no smoking, drugs, she does an activity once a week, her grades are only ok (capable of much more but it also could be worse)

For the last number of years she has been capable of incredible rudeness, intransigence and just generally being difficult. Usual teenage stuff ramped up, but challenging to be around. She spent years being pretty rude to her younger sibling, who she now wants to engage with, but the sibling doesn’t want to engage with her.

She doesn’t have a great group of friends - she’s can be a lovely girl so I don’t think this is her fault, just one of those things - hasn’t found her tribe yet and i know this massively bothers her. She lacks confidence, and this is particularly around how she looks. She has dyspraxia which makes make up and hair and sometimes self care a challenge and there are times when I have had to point this out. I’ve tried to be as kind as I could but it seems like any comment is treated like a knife to the heart so now I say nothing and she gets upset when her outfit / make up doesn’t turn out as she wants. It’s a lose / lose really. I feel so sorry for her, and know this can’t be an easy way to feel and I go out of my way to connect, help, love her whatever way she needs. There has been therapeutic help in the past but she feels she doesn’t need it. I think she really just needs some belief and confidence in herself.

We don’t demand a lot of her but the one red line I have is school. If you are sick you can stay home but otherwise in, and in on time. The school, although high achieving, are very lax on this , she has 17 late notes this academic year (ireland not Uk)

Well this morning she wanted to skip the first two classes as her ‘tummy was sore’ It wasn’t, she just didn’t want to go in as they were free study classes. I said go in and this escalated to a massive argument - we hate her,belittle her, treat her like
a baby, this should be her choice, bullied her two years ago, isolated her, make fun of her appearance etc etc etc

After an argument and then trying to deal with this calmly, I left the house as she clearly just wanted to fight and she sent 8 messages, all quite abusive about how she hates herself , we’re awful etc etc.

AIBU to just hold the line here and not listen to the rant that invariably ends in her crying as she is clearly upset.

I regularly take the usual teenage abuse from all my kids but when do you get to go enough is enough. ?

I’m not moving on school attendance and this is what the argument started about

She's 17, you don't appear to be treating her like she is a young adult.

There is actually a very strong correlation between attendance and grades at a population level.

is that broken down more? - would be interesting to know what it shows for various sen

By not allowing her skip school?

When i was that age i never went in if i had free study periods in the morning. I was far more productive at home. If i had been forced to go in during my free study periods i wouldn't have got much done. It was never quiet in the library. I would have spent more time planning a party.

Interesting question. Not to my knowledge. But there is def a strong link between SEN and absence.

Does she want to go to Uni?

When dd had her diagnosis the dr did say that school would be a bumpy ride as it just doesn’t suit the adhd brain - but there’s no reason why she can’t thrive as an adult as there is more flexibility.

I’ve also heard that a levels can be the hardest part of education for kids with adhd and that university is easier structurally and gives them the freedom to self manage

hope so anyway

As a secondary teacher I think you should cut her some slack. The study areas must be isolating if she hasn’t really got any friends; students sit in groups. Some schools allow sixth formers to study at home. If hers doesn’t, can you speak to them about it and see if they can make any adjustments for her? She might end up dropping out completely otherwise.

She says she does

She does have friends in school to sit with, just not outside school if you know what I mean. It turns out one period was study for the subject in the classroom and the second was time with the resource teacher who is meant to help her organise - who she also resists

I think if you want her to succeed at uni when you won’t be there then you need to use this time to get her to self manage and find what works for her - and what works for her won’t be what worked for you necessarily

But you are being too simplistic about this. Her issues evidently mean that she is not going to benefit from your rigid approach.

Thank you all for the advice. I think I need to find a middle ground that allows my DD some autonomy whilst ensuring she is staying committed to school.

OP, this sounds like a very stressful start to the day for all concerned. Does she want to achieve whatever sort of qualification she is studying for and what does she want to do next? I think it would be more useful if she was motivated by those things than because you say she has to go.

If she doesn't have friends at school and you two have argued she is possibly going to have a miserable time. I am not saying she shouldn't honour her commitments because I do think that it can be important to make a plan and stick to it, in terms of finding satisfaction and increasing self-esteem but not because you want her to.

I might have got the wrong impression from your post but you sound very invested in her school success, as many parents are these days, but think this may be counterproductive. She sounds really unhappy and I feel for her. It sounds like she isn't meeting your expectations and she knows it, which must be hard. Your post made her sound like she is being ill behaved but I could only hear a young person who communicated she was really struggling.

Sadly teenagers are often foul when they communicate this and say very terrible, hurtful things but what they are actually trying to say is that all is not well. I'm not an advocate of skipping school by any means but if this is how it is making her feel, I'll be glad for her when it is over.

Does her school have a school nurse/councellor? Ours does and they ran a workshop recently about supporting teenage mental health which I found useful in reframing what my DD14 was saying into an appeal for support and understanding rather than what she was actually saying (which isn't always very nice to hear), and just that has helped me rather a lot. I'm not always brilliant and I do still object to being shouted at, but every time I respond calmly to something that could escalate, I feel I am winning a little bit. Teenagers are really, really tricky OP. Much support from me. They push your buttons. I wonder if you and your DD could try to find some calm solutions that could make you work together to solve problems she faces. Good luck, OP.

I think now she is 17, you have to take a step back and give her space to grow up a bit. She is practically and adult and she should make her own decisions even if in your view she is making mistakes.

OP I am also in Ireland my eldest dd is autistic and dyslexic. School has not been easy for her, the environment is overwhelming and she struggles to stay regulated. She has struggled academically so being in school and accessing her resource support is crucial. She is doing her leaving cert this year and has 2 more days of school and then she's done. I don't know how I got her this far I have been in your space when she never wanted to go or called to get signed out to come home. I have questioned my approach many times and I've wondered whether insisting on school attendance was the right thing? Was I damaging her? Unfortunately I still don't have the answers to that but what I will say is I think pulling back and allowing her to go in late every now and again is ok. Put some boundaries in around it though and let her know you are trusting her to judge when it is appropriate to go in late but also that it won't be something you will facilitate too often. If she's in 5th year I assume she'll have summer exams in a couple of weeks and then off for the summer so you're nearly there. 6th year is a very different year my dd did not look to leave early or not go in once, they know the end is near and I think that gives them the strength to keep going.
Good luck it is a tough space but keep communication open with the school support each other in keeping her in. My dd had a great resource teacher that kept me in the loop with what was going on.

For what its worth, I am completely with you on your strategy of parenting for the long-term and teaching young adults that some things like school/work are not negotiable. There are increasing numbers of students at University who do not have what it takes to succeed at higher education (a large part of it is discipline and work ethic) but feel entitled to extensive adjustments and an excellent outcome. If she cannot get find the motivation to get herself to school on a regular basis, she is going to be ill-equipped for University or life.

Maybe it's time to have a general conversation with her about school and how she fits into family life. I'm also based in ROI with an ASD 16 year old.

Some non-negotiable rules would be that no abuse or swearing at family members is tolerated.

Is there an alternative way for her to succeed in life? Given that she doesn't seem to be academically minded would an apprenticeship be a better fit for her. I appreciate that the dyspraxia might rule many apprenticeships out but there may well be suitable positions. She would end up with a qualification and earn some money at the same time.

You could also make the point that you can't sit her exams for her and her Leaving Cert is in her power. You've been there and worn that t-shirt

Anecdotally admittedly, but Im never surprised when I learn that the absolute chancers with bare minimum work ethic that I have recruited/worked alongside/managed are more often than not the ones who had gentle parenting and regularly allowed to skip school for an itchy arse cheek or whatever.

Worrying that she says she hates herself.

This isn’t uncommon with kids with adhd. It’s worth recognising that they don’t want to be the way they are and trying to be ‘normal’ can be exhausting and sometimes futile. Plus all the negative comments they get about being lazy etc etc when it’s executive dysfunction

the cycle of try - fail knocks their self esteem massively. That’s why it’s important they figure out how they can succeed within their own parameters. And there’s absolutely no reason why they can’t succeed - it might just be a different path to the one their parents took

@Windywho YANBU My Asd son has done this in the past. You start giving in to different aches they will just up them. What I tell and have told my son is that you go in and try and if your tummy/head/whatever is still hurting after 1 hour in school call me.

He has only called once in 4 years. So it's def psychosomatic and he just needs to get on with it.

Thank you @Bigtrapeze and @TheLongRider

9 times out of 10 I keep my cool, but this morning I didn’t. I had eventually agreed that she could miss the first period and she just kept at me. It was relentless.

I am not really invested in school success. I let go of that idea long ago when DD made it clear that she wasn’t going to aim high and I am fine with that. I just want her to do as well as she can or is able to do.

She deeply wants to go to university and it would be a massive blow for her if she didn’t get there. Just cruising in 3rd gear she should make it, albeit not a high points course. I know this is what she wants so i am trying to, i suppose, scaffold around this.

The summer can’t come quick enough. Having free time brings its own challenges for DD but that’s manageable.

You are right to hold the line on school and it sounds like a teenage tantrum from someone who is finding it all a struggle.

I get really pissed off with how rude today’s kids are as well, I simply wouldn’t have dared speak to my parents that way and I think that was much better.

It sounds like you are being supportive - not sure what else you can do beyond perhaps further discussions with the GP? Why don’t you try asking her when discussing the abusive messages?

It’s crazy isn’t it, the kids these days have so much understanding and latitude because of all their various mental health conditions, yet their behaviour is far worse.